Monday, December 1, 2014

Comments on the blog

Ankur Kulkarni says

I think the reason is not lack of talent. I think the reason is that the Kafkaesque bureaucracy, untrusting or even hostile attitude of administrators (who are also other faculty, often from a deprived generation) and lack of systemic incentives and individual recognition for excellence, humiliates, depresses and eventually ruins the zest for research of all but a few thick-skinned faculty. 
You can see evidence of this on the ground. IITs have been hiring people with great potential since about 2008 (since the 6th pay commission - roughly a year before this FAQ post started). Now would be a good time to take stock. How many of them have achieved their potential? And how many have degenerated into pade-shadows of their earlier selves, still talented but drained and defeated? I think a sadly large number are in the latter category.

Senior IISc Prof says

The anon posters above..please do not forget that things that Prof. Giri has said before here and Prof. Balaram put it eloquently "IIX has benign neglect for people who perform."

IIX is a government job. Nobody cares a damn whether you work or not work. They may be some minimum requirements for promotion like 5 papers in 5 years, 1 ph.d student etc. So, people work towards working for these requirements. Beyond that, do not expect to be appreciated if you publish 50 papers in 5 years. You will be treated the same. 

Same number of students, same number of space, same money, same salary for everyone. We practice socialism but expect capitalism in output. 

So, you might wonder why people talk about increasing research output and rankings etc. Then, please read this.

http://dsanghi.blogspot.in/2011_02_01_archive.html

"One of my colleague once said that we talk about PhD program because it is in fashion to talk about research, and we need to justify not doing research. But we really don't want to admit more PhD students because we are afraid we will have to work harder. "

Take examples everywhere. Hard working professors in IIX work hard because they are self motivated. They will not get 1 rupee more either in research or personal money. They will not be given even one research student extra that prescribed maximum in the institute. No one (Expect their friends) will appreciate what they are doing.

This is reality. IF you do not know what is the reality of a government job, do not join. And repeat after me: IIX is a government job.

Senior prof in IISc.

Another commentator from IIT says

Why 50 papers in 5 years? There are even some faculty who publish 50 good papers in 1 year, patent, teach and also bring projects. They are also treated the same..not even more space or students or research/ equipment money from the institutions..forget personal money.
IIX runs primarily on motivated faculty and staff who work irrespective of rewards and without expectations. The admin knows that they work because of self motivation and nothing needs to be done.

Thanks to the commentators..glad to keep the blog unmoderated and allow anonymous comments. I do not think many would write if it is otherwise.

8 comments:

iitmsriram said...

Not really part of this post, but it was interesting to see some of the issues raised by Dheeraj Sanghi. Several of his "suggestions" are now incorporated in PhD admissions - starting with the transfer of 4th year UG students to IIT to complete their UG program and going on for PhD at the IIT.

Anonymous said...

starting with the transfer of 4th year UG students to IIT to complete their UG program and going on for PhD at the IIT.

How many of the 5000 B.Tech students from IIT go on to do Ph.D in any IIT? Less than 1% (50)..or even less. What is the use of such a program.

Better to say IIT is a good teaching institution.

Anonymous said...

"There are even some faculty who publish 50 good papers in 1 year, patent, teach and also bring projects."

Really? Sounds impossible.

iitmsriram said...

anon wonders "How many of the 5000 B.Tech students from IIT go on to do Ph.D in any IIT? Less than 1% (50)..or even less. What is the use of such a program." It would appear anon has not read my post carefully. "Transfer of 4th year UG students to IIT" would mean transfer from some place other than an IIT to an IIT. I think that is the obvious meaning. I believe that renders this anon's comment irrelevant. Why bother reading anything, just act as if it has been done and add the sour comments.

Anonymous said...

IITMSriram:
Thanks for your comment. Please give details on how a fourth year student in an university can transfer to IIT during the fourth year. Please give appropriate links so that many students in the final year can apply and do their fourth year in IIT. I think the B.Tech degree will still be given by the original institute and not from IIT.

I know it was formally approved for transfer from NITs to IITs but did not see any advertisment or application. Of course, I may have missed it.

I am surprised because many universities will not allow this. I hope requirements like GATE etc are also not required as suggested by Dheeraj Sanghi.

The anon may have understood to mean transfer from IIT to IIT. 99% B.Techs from IITs do not do Ph.D in IIT

Anon@Dec 1, 2014 at 7:23 PM,

Prof. Giridhar has published more than 50 papers and has three patents this year, according to google scholar . I am sure he teaches..so is he doing the impossible??? Sure there are many others.

iitmsriram said...

Transferring to IIT is right now on only in some NITs. IITM has signed MoUs with the NITs in this zone, so current 5th sem students can apply to transfer to IITM in June. Yes, they will get their UG degree from "their" NIT only, by getting transfer credits from IITM. I don't think there will be a newspaper advertisement as this is a program specific to each NIT and IIT, I would think it would be advertised only within each NIT where it is operational. GATE is anyway not required for IIT or NIT students who get 8.0 CGPA, with or without this transfer program. And, in any case, GATE is only a scholarship requirement and not an admission requirement (in general).

Anonymous said...

Anon (December 1, 10:51 am) laments that only 1% of IIT undergrads do PhDs at IITs. While this is true, it is not necessarily surprising or an insurmountable problem. Even in USA, the best undergrad students of universities other than MIT/Berkeley/Stanford etc. join higher ranked universities. Thus, the best undergrad talent gets poached. However, universities that are ranked 10-15 dont cry hoarse over it. They find other talented students from elsewhere and continue doing their research. IIX should reach out to students - most students from non IIX dont know about all the opportunities available at IIT. In India, we produce 1.5 million engineers per year -- surely we can find a few talented people, can't we?
HS

Sudipta Sen said...

sir,which are the courses offered by IISC to the BS pass-out. do they get any extra advantage during selection to higher courses at IISc.