Saturday, January 1, 2011

(old) Pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc

This is a pinned post (i.e., this post will always appear at the top of this blog though newer posts appear below it) for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc. Please post all your questions and comments here and please read this site and the old post before you post your queries.

This has crossed 200 comments and a new pinned post has been created. 

268 comments:

1 – 200 of 268   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

BTW, other than protesting for salaries, the forum of teachers of IIT and IISc does something ? I have not seen anything done by them in the interest of the institutes they work for!

Anonymous said...

I have a question to Prof. Madras. After a PhD in one of the IITs, there are two options- postdoc or a regular position in one of the non-IITs (NIT/ IIIT/IIITDM). Some of us fail to go for postdoc because of some logistic and family reasons and join one of the NIT/IIIT. Now the question is, a candidate with 2 years of NIT experience considered superior or inferior to someone who does postdoc abroad for 2 years?

In this comparison, let us keep the publication record same.

Considering the fact that postdocs are less paid and sometimes do not even work on research projects leading to publications, I do not think it is a good idea to blindly give more weightage to postdoc experience

--H

Giri@iisc said...

If the publication record is the same, then it will be considered similar. Actually, a person who has spent 2 years as postdoc will be considered inferior if he has no publications from postdoc.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the reply. I was expecting you to say little more on this. Let me ask more.

The thing I wanted to know is, is there a prejudice/culture/trend that postdoc experience is a must for faculty position even if the publication record is good? Is the teching experience gained in NIT/IITs not given any weight? Why are we after the publications only ? A proven teaching ability should given some weight right?

Teaching and research are both important aspects of a faculty member?

Anonymous said...

It is amusing to see the job applicant pontificate about selection criteria to his employer. Where else does this happen?

iitmsriram said...

Dear Anon,

How does one establish "A proven teaching ability"? Sure, one can show that one has taught for x years at institution y and taught z courses, is that what proven teaching ability is? Teaching and research are both important aspects, but research is given most importance in evaluation (even more so in IISc); even at IITs, the teaching aspect is generally treated as 'OK?' and often, even a 'not really OK' is overlooked if the research record is sufficiently stellar. Experience is experience and given the weightage it is due; most engineering departments are indifferent to post doc experience and it is just total experience that counts. Some science and other departments might consider post doc an essential feature.

Anonymous said...

It will be greatly helpful to know if anyone has received an interview call from any engineering department in IIT Delhi.

Thanks...

Anonymous said...

I too have not received any interview call from IITD after I gave a seminar there in May.

Niket said...

(1) To the best of my knowledge, IIT-D has not set up formal interview dates yet for Chemical Engineering.

Please take this info with a pinch of salt.

(2) To Anon--H (5:38 pm)
There are no biases against someone with 2 year experience at NIT. In fact, one NIT faculty was recently hired by IIT (though, he had a post-doc experience also).

Reflecting what Prof. Sriram said, post-doc is not a requirement in Engineering departments at IITs. There might be inherent biases in members of recruitment committees, but there are no institutional biases. All else being same, some folks might in fact treat n papers in x years from NIT much higher than the same number of papers from post-doc. Some others may value post-doc experience more. Institute is also a sum total of people who make these institutes.

Anonymous said...

To Anon @ July 4, 2010 5:38 PM

There is no reason to equate IIIT with NIT. If you mean IIIT Allahabad/Gwalior or IIITDM Jabbalpur/Kanchi, I can sort of see the point.

But, even a cursory look at the webpages in IIIT Delhi, Bangalore and Hyderabad, speaks volumes about the quality of the institute. From a neutral standpoint (I am in one of the top 5 Universities in US), I do not see how the average faculty quality in these places is no less good than most of the IITs leaving out IITK or IITB.

It is high time that people use the IIIT name with caution. Else, it is worse than saying all UC's are the same in US, where UC can mean University of Cincinnati/California/Chicago/Colorado.

Anonymous said...

Hi

Thank you for the blog. Its very useful. I have a couple of questions regarding iisc.

1) If the faculty decides not to take the campus housing can he and the family still avail gymkhana facilities?

2) When moving from the US, what is the limit to which the institute will reimburse? In other words, how much stuff can you move from the US?


Thanks!

Anonymous said...

yes, to the first; 1.25 lakhs for the second

Anonymous said...

I have a question to Prof. Madras. Do IISc/IITs offer research assistant professor positions? Also, can you compare post doc positions with research assistant professors? I am a graduate student nearing completion and will look for one such position soon. I want to compare the two positions before making a choice.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone received interview call letter for a faculty position in any dept. from IIT Kanpur recently?

MG.

Anonymous said...

If anybody in IISc is looking for a non-private gas connection, the easiest avenue is to go to Akshaya gas agency in sampige. No ration card or chairman's letter will be needed. Only id, appointment letter and address proof will be needed.

Saptarshi

Anonymous said...

Hi All,

Is there any difference in value between a full time phd and a part time phd ? is there any preference given to the former when applying to faculty positions or in general (in industry) ?

Regards,
DG

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

I have a question regarding conference travel in IISc. The 3 lakhs that one gets (for 3 years) is supposed to cover international travel along with other expenses. But for national conference travel, is there additional amount allocated or is it part of the same 3 lakhs. Lastly I am a new faculty, hence are the rules for accessing this fund different during probation period.

Thanks

Giri@iisc said...

3 lakhs includes international and national travel. The rules are same for everyone. 3 years is a block period of Aug 2008- Aug 2011. Money has to be spent within this period.

Anonymous said...

I guess it will be prorated then since I joined very recently and the period started from 2008.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,
Do you know when exactly the selection committe meeting in September is scheduled?
Thanks
SP

Anonymous said...

Hello,
I posted this in the old thread and moving it to the new one now and so you may find it there and also here sorry for double posts.

First of all, A big Thank you for Prof. Madras and all the other faculty members for their invaluble information.

This may not be a proper question, but if I may, would like to get an opinion on my profile for the AP application in IIx's, i.e. If at all I can apply now, or should improve my CV and apply later. This is what I have so far:

1 year of Post-Doc @ top-tier univ. in USA.

PhD in Physics, from a decent university from USA (well known for physics department although bit low in over all ranking) with a renowed Prof. in my field of research theoretical Quantum optics( if recos weighs?)

M.Sc in University of Hyderabad.

Pubs: 3 published ( 1 in PRL, 2 in PRA) and 2 are under review. So that makes 5, and there are 2 invited articles in a conf. proceedings( if at all this matters)

Working on some emerging topics in Physics.

What am unable to decide is if I should start applying now,(since the process will take several months) or should I need to make my self more competitive?

Thank you in Advance.
-AC

Anonymous said...

Dear Profs. Madras and Sriram,
I am currently at an old IIT (finished 1 year service and graduated 2 years back). I am considering moving to another IIT (old/new). Will the new offer gives me a on-contract appointment or a regular position that I currently have? I am not very sure about it. Please respond. (the HODs are not commenting...)

K

Giri@iisc said...

Will depend on selection comm

Anonymous said...

I had a question regarding relocation expense. I am currently in US and planning to join one of the IIXs. In order to get reimbursed for the relocation, do I have to book Air India fights? I know for conference travel reimbursement, you have to use Air India but am not sure whether the same rule applies to relocation reimbursement. Any help in this regard will be appreciated.
S

Anonymous said...

I have recently been offered an AP position in an old IIT. It is a contract position as I don't have 3 years post-Ph.D. experience.

My question is: will this contract position be automatically converted to a regular position after I fulfill the 3 years post-Ph.D. requirement or there will again be some interview for this?

Deepak

iitmsriram said...

Deepak,

Your appointment is supposed to automatically roll over to regular (from contract) once you have 3 years experience (pre- or post- PhD). Your grade pay should tell you where you stand - it is 6000 with no experience, and 7000 with one year (post-PhD) experience.

Anonymous said...

Deepak: It is automatic. Giridhar

Anonymous said...

I have been concentrating on my civil service studies until my post graduation (which is in applied physics) and due to that I always scored between 55-60% all the time. However, civil services did not work, and I did my doctorate.
During my doctorate and 3 years of post doctorate (at one of the top most institute for this discipline) I performed nicely (having more than 10 paper with h-index of 7; including one nature paper). My question is since my academics are average (although they do not represent my deserving credentials) what are the chances that my application will be considered for the AP positions in IISc or IITs? Thanks in advance.

Anonymous said...

Prof. Sriram and Prof. Giri: Thank you for your reply.

I have another question: though I have about 2 years of experience, my AGP is 6000. It therefore means that my experience was not counted by the selection committee in deciding my AGP. In contrast, the job offer letter states that the contract period is for 2 years.
So does it mean that this contract position will be regularized only after two years (when I actually will have 4 years of experience), or it can be regularized after one year also when I fulfill the criteria of having 3 years experience?

Who will decide about the regularization of this contract position?

Thank you again for your feedback.

Deepak

Kaushik said...

I think a pseudonym could be used instead of 'Anonymous'. Too many anons make it very confusing.

Anonymous said...

@Kaushik, address the anons by the time they have posted. Like first anon on this post is anon @5.23. If two anons have same time then use date month year etc. Long live anon.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

First of all accept my sincere thanks for guiding the prospective candidates for faculty positions in IITs/IISc through this blog.

Recently, I have been interviewed for a assistant professor position in one of the old IITs. After, 2-3 weeks, my recommendation letters have been requested. Can I conclude that I have been shortlisted for the next round?

I came to know from some of my friends, who have recently been offered assistant prof. positions in IITs that second round of the interview is just formality as selection commt. take into consideration the recommendation from respective departments. Does it really the case? If not, then what type of questions are generally asked in second round and which criterias they take into consideration for screening the final candidates from shortlisted ones.

Thanks in advance!

Anonymus

Anonymous said...

Did anyone got interview call from IITD?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @August 9, 2010 8:43 PM:
You don't need to bother about whether the next interview will be a formality or not. The interview selection committee includes members from outside the institute and this committee will finally decide on your selection based on your performance in the interview. Of course, they will also take into consideration the Dept's view and the reco letters. So, prepare well for the interview.
About the questions in interview, you better browse through the comments in the older post here https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=9116143270950916411&blogID=6061089355607754501&isPopup=false&page=1.
Specially the one by Anony. at April 22, 2010 11:11 PM.

Deepak

Anonymous said...

Can someone enlighten me on the status of IISc in India as an institute of higher learning?

I came across this page in MHRD's web site on institutes of national
importance:
http://www.education.nic.in/IHL/INSTITUTIONSNATIONALIMPORTANCE.pdf

All IITs are there and a few NITs. But, IISc is missing. Is IISc not considered an institute of national importance?

prospective_faculty said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

I have recently received a science Ph.D from one of the top institutes of Canada and got postdoc offers from Harvard and MIT. If I do a postdoc, I cross 35 years. In that case, will a postdoc experience from a top institute help to exempt the 'preferably below 35 years' mark in IISC/TIFR/IITs?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,
Do you have any idea about the dates when IISc selection committe meeting will be held in September? Thank you in advance,
cheers
SP

Anonymous said...

IIT, Roorkee had advertised for 120 AP positions. Has anybody heard from them? Also, has IITD set up formal interview process for the applications that were due in March?

S

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

thanks for organizing this discussion thread. I have received a masters degree and a doctorate in computer science from a reputed German University. After PhD, I have 2.5 years of experience as a senior researcher. I am interested to move to IISC Banglore/IIT Madras.

- For a faculty position - what are +ves and -ves, if you compare IIT Madras and IISC? I would like to focus on research and consulting.

- What is difference in scope of an assistant and associate professor? Will I be considered for an associate professor position?

- In the fields of my expertise, I find conferences mostly in the US and Europe. Is it possible to get funding for 1-2 conferences/year in Europe or in the US? A funding of 3 lakhs/3 years is not enough if I plan to attend 1-2 conferences/year. PhD students working in China are paid for 1-2 international conferences per year.

-At the university where I work, researches have possibilities to start companies. They can generate income as well. Is it possible to start companies while working at IITs/IISC? Can you tell me exact scope of consulting?

Vijay Sethuraman said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

Many thanks for compiling all the information (for prospective IISc faculty) in one place. This is really helpful!

Vijay.

Giri@iisc said...

all your questions are answered here

http://csa.iisc.ernet.in/people/people-prospectivefaculty.php

Giri@iisc said...

"All IITs are there and a few NITs. But, IISc is missing. Is IISc not considered an institute of national importance?"

No, IISc is not in the institutes of national importance (INI). INI was brought in only to institutes established after independence.

However, many people think IISc is INI. It is not.

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras

Before posting questions, I have read infomation available at:

http://csa.iisc.ernet.in/people/people-prospectivefaculty.php

I did not find answers for the questions.

Giri@iisc said...

>- For a faculty position - what >are +ves and -ves, if you compare >IIT Madras and IISC? I would like >to focus on research and >consulting.

Can not do so. One is my alma mater and the other is my employer !

>- What is difference in scope of >an assistant and associate >professor? Will I be considered >for an associate professor >position?

For senior positions, in addition to a Ph.D. degree, the prospective candidates are expected to have made significant contributions in their area of research and mentored doctoral students.

>- In the fields of my expertise, I >find conferences mostly in the US >and Europe. Is it possible to get >funding for 1-2 conferences/year >in Europe or in the US? A funding >of 3 lakhs/3 years is not enough >if I plan to attend 1-2 >conferences/year. PhD students >working in China are paid for 1-2 >international conferences per >year.

Rs. 3 lakhs for attending international conferences during a sliding period of three years is typically supplemented by travel support from industry partners and government agencies.

>-At the university where I work, >researches have possibilities to >start companies. They can generate >income as well. Is it possible to >start companies while working at >IITs/IISC?

Yes, some have done so.

> Scope of consulting

Location: Bangalore is the IT capital of India and is home to the research and development wings of several companies like AOL, Bell labs, GM, IBM, Infosys, Intel, Microsoft, and Philips. So, there is a lot of scope for collaboratory research with the industry.

Anonymous said...

Dear all,

I shall join an old IIT soon. It is mentioned in the appointment letter that the relocation allowance is up to Rs 100,000/- for reimbursement of air fare for self and spouse and cost of transportation of goods.

Please let me know whether my kid's flight fare will also be reimbursed or the allowance will be given only for me and my wife's journey.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

R2I.

Anonymous said...

kid is covered too.

elcop said...

Hey, nice site you have here! Keep up the excellent work!
Madras University Results

Anonymous said...

In IITB, the allowance is only for the joining faculty and his/her spouse. Not for the kid(s).

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,
Will you please tell us when the selection committee meeting is scheduled this month in IISc?
And, as last time, you may ignore this request!
Thanks
SP

Giri@iisc said...

Dear SP,

I am not ignoring your request. But you have to remember that selection committees are held at various times and dates and only the concerned department chairman will know about the date and time. How will I find out when the selection committee meeting is when I do not even know which department you are asking. Even if I know the department, how can I know the selection committee meeting dates for each department?

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Very Sorry Prof. Madras,
I should be asking for Council meeting dates. Ofcourse you will not know selection committee meeting dates for individual departments.
Do you have any idea when Council meeting is scheduled for this month?
Thanks very much,
SP

Anonymous said...

The council date is Oct 1.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon at 4.37PM,
Thank you very much,
Cheers
SP

Anonymous said...

On relocation allowance:

Can any one tell whether the spouse air-fare is also covered at IISc? It's not explicitly mentioned in the offer letter.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof Madras,

I am interested in applying for Assistant Professor in IISC. I have almost 2 yrs research experience (pre PhD) and 2 yrs work experience (post PhD). Do you think that I am eligible for applying as Assistant Prof. If eligible I would be applying in Civil Engg Dept or CAOS

Please kindly suggest whether I should make an application.

Anonymous said...

@Anon above

Whether IISc and the dept concerned will like your application depends on so many factors, like publications, your letters of support, experience, etc. You should better consult someone at your department of interest (may be an young faculty). That worked for me!

Anonymous said...

Prof. Sriram,
I will soon join IITM as an AP. Would you please confirm whether my kid's air-fare will also be covered in the relocation allowance.
Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras et al.,

SUBJECT: "Are Dept. heads unbiased/impartial while handling applications?"

Greetings. Some Depts. at IISc/IIT advertise faculty positions and ask the applicants to directly send their Email applications to the Dept. Chairman. The Dept. head after reading/before reading the email application can simply DELETE THE MAIL!
The reasons can be many; e.g. the Chairman does not like the research area/method/Supervisor of the applicant, or the applicant's research results are in direct opposition to Chairman's research (if they are working in the same field), etc. It is not a secret in academics that many people can't stand each other :)

So, my query is, what should the applicant do? should she/he wait till the Chairman retires? Is there any other way to bypass him and still apply to the same Dept?

Regards
Vishruth

Anonymous said...

Dear Vishruth,

Your question is a rather timeless one - more about human nature than about the institutes you mention. Unless the entire human race is perfected into a race of supreme beings, the problems you mention will remain. My recommendation is that you settle for some other place where you don't feel threatened by the chairman.

iitmsriram said...

I believe Vishruth's problem is more imagined than real. In any case, the chair (Head of Department, actually) position in IIX is not permanent but a typical 3 year term appointment, so there is no need to wait for anyone to retire. There is also something called RTI act, so one can always ask for information on how many candidates applied, what were the shortlisting criteria, how many were shortlisted, etc etc and the Institution is duty bound to provide this information.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

How much does teaching count at IIX's ? In general does doing a good job at teaching rewarded/ respected ? Is there an equivalent of an NSF Career grant from any funding agency in India ?

Thanks
TD

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous (September 5, 2010)

There is an award for teaching and research excellence in IIT Madras...The name of the award is ``Young Faculty Recognition Award'' (YFRA). Age limit: 40 years and Eligibility: Faculty with good teach evaluation preferably from BTech students. The research component of the award is at least ONE journal paper from IIT Madras (during the award time), but you need to be a good teacher...This does not necessarily mean a good researcher can get this award easily....There are quite a few people who excelled in research, was not even been shortlisted for the interview....So you have to set the proper equation to solve (I mean the award).

Anonymous said...

In India, awards are given for something else...not for teaching or research excellence.

Anonymous said...

Hi all,

In IITB, what type of apartments are usually allotted to a new faculty joining as an AP. I mean, the quality and no. of bedrooms, etc.
Thanks.

Sundar

Anonymous said...

I believe that the selection committees have a strong bias for foreign post docs..I am serving a reputed NIT for the last 11 years, did a nice PhD at IIT, have some good publications, including IEEE Transactions, am aged below 35, having research projects, staring new MTech programs at my institute.
I applied for a new IIT, they did not find me eligible for an interview :(...They are happy with contractual appointments for postdocs, who do not have a single publication. Recently, in IITD, in one deptt, 14 candidates appeared..7 were post docs, all were selected, rest 7 were not, they all got rejected....

SKjain said...

Baising for foreign PostDocs is quite visible in IITs.. grass on other side always looks green.. In most of the foreign PostDocs, one is just a member of a big team..what is one's contribution is not very clear.but, what IITs feel they will bring projects for IIT and in turn some money for them. I don't know how they can proove their teaching abilities with postdocs compared to a faculty in NITs..who has proven track record..Teaching IIT students is much more challenging, where these much hyped Postdocs feel the heat..

Anonymous said...

Dear SKjain,

Teaching students can be really a challenge. However, I would like to make a clear distinction here. There are many types of postdocs, PhD students, and teachers.

I have met many newly hired faculty by IISc this last year. They all have completely different backgrounds, went to study and work in different places, and still they all have something in common. They have excelled in their field and are independent, very successful researchers. It depends on their field of expertise, but many have worked more than 5 years in the industry. They are ready to work on their own from day one, writing grants, setting up the lab, doing research, having students, etc.

I do believe that just going abroad to do a 4-5 years PhD or a 1-2 years postdoc is not enough to make a good researcher. One has to endure much more, and that will depend on a broad range of factors, including how competitive is his/her lab or workplace.

At the same time, there is plenty of research that states that a good teacher needs proper training and not only experience. Of course there a few "naturals", those whose students will always remember about. However, the majority of us would actually need to learn how to teach in order to become a good teacher.

Ideally, to have a good researcher and a good teacher, universities need people with good research record, experience working within the top of their field, experience leading people, good training on how to be a good teacher, and more.

Getting back to the case of IISc. More than 50 % (I'm not sure about this value) of positions that could be open for new hires in IISc are not filled. Why? Most probably because IISc main purpose is to do top research and train well people to do good research. To do a good job, they cannot settle for less.

So there are many cases where people without a postdoc or professional experience abroad are hired. However, as the ones that went abroad they have worked very hard, much beyond the work they did in their PhD.

M.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I also feel that foreign postdocs are valued little ore compared to others independent of what other factors though Prof. Giridhar clarified this once.

Another thing I wanted to ask is, what about BITS Hyd? I am Andhra Pradesh and would like a job only in Hyd. In that case, I have three options only IITH, IIIT H and BITS H (which are autonomous and respectable institutes). How is this BITS when you compare with other institutes? I am not really bothered about govt or private. Just an academic comparison is required of course salary also matters

dilse_ben44 said...

I am sure that you are aware of the fact that the research scholars in India are being paid peanuts with respect to the ones in the West. Actually that is one of the main reason why India is facing the problem of "brain drain". Even in the present scenario, the proposal of stipend hike for research scholars from 12K & 14K to 16K & 18K respectively came up in 2007, but it got sanctioned only in April 2010. In these 3 years the inflation rate has risen from being 5.5 to 13.73% as of June 2010..but the proposed pay still remained at 18K. Even that amount itself hasn't been released yet by the MHRD.
For a research scholar who is a bachelor & staying in the campus, this amount is sufficient....but about 70% of these students have to support their families & a good number of them are married as well. In such a scenario, this amount is barely sufficient to make ends meet.Prior to joining here for PhD, I was working & with my bachelor's degree itself I was making 20K. The point I want to make is that presently I have a Post graduate degree also & still I am being paid much lesser. Until & unless the MHRD looks into this matter seriously, research field wont get an impetus in our country.
We are not asking for a 2 or 3 time hike...but something reasonable in the whereabouts of 25-30K per month rather than 18K. On behalf of all the research scholars of India, I humbly implore to look into the matter seriously & please put up the matter for discussion with the Administration & MHRD. We are aware that there are many obstacles & red tape issues involved, but unless the Administration looks into the matter sincerely & apply pressure on the MHRD you are breaking the confidence of all of us & also discouraging numerous future students from venturing into research as they will get much attractive pay in industry.

Anonymous said...

Dear dilse_ben44,
You say: PhD scholars in India are being paid peanuts with respect to the ones in west. For your knowledge, a Ph.D student in the US gets as low as $1500pm. With this money, he/she has to spend on literally everything, cook for self, do the laundry and shopping, share your room with 2/3 more students and save some money to visit India in one/two years. Comparatively, ask yourself what else you have to do except doing research when you are living in a campus like IIT/IISc. If money is the matter, why did you come for a PhD?
I also don't agree with you that 70% PhD students are married. In fact, as I have seen in several IITs, less than 20 % students are married. You should understand that doing PhD is not like doing a 'job'.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of red tape, I just found out something hilarious. As a new faculty member to IISc, I was very happy to learn that the institute gives us 3 lakh rupees over three years for books/conferences etc. So, I decided to buy a book for which no Indian reprint exists. It costs about Rs. 5000. I found that I have to fill in about 5 different pieces of paperwork before the institute will release this money to the vendor.

The library in IISc is a sorry excuse of a library and buying books from funds that have been granted to me requires 5 pieces of paperwork. The more I see the system, the more I realize what a big mistake I made by leaving a high paying job in North America to come to this institute.

If you want to know more about the great infrastructural facilities on IISc campus, read Giridhar's post on stray dogs! To all prospective faculty, my advice is, look for a job in US/Canada before you even think of IISc. You will gain nothing by joining this place. Everything rots in a few decades, a hundred years pretty much leaves the skeleton out.

dilse said...

Dear Anonymous..you got me wrong..I meant around 70% of the students have the responsibility of supporting their families...& out of that a good no. are married. I can guarantee you on one thing..if you ask any PhD student..they will definitely tell you the stipend is barely sufficient unless you are a bachelor & dont have to sent money home. By the way, students who join for PhD..dont join it for money coz everyone is aware that it doesnt pay much but that doesnt mean we should be paid so low.No one is asking for a 2 or 3 time hike but in the reasonable range of 25k or so.

Anonymous said...

Hello Dilse,
I can only imagine what you are saying regarding the stipend for a Ph.D student in India and how difficult it is sometimes. However, I would like to point out another view to this discussion..

In the US, a student who just completed his/her Masters will earn about 65k-75k (gross) per annum depending on the industry and the place. However, if the same student joins a Ph.D programme, he/she will get about 20k-30k (gross), again depending on the university and place. So, you see, there is approximately three fold difference between these two situations. Please note that these are just rough estimates and people please dont hit me back with specifics that dont fall into this category. I also know of Ph.D students with families, by which I mean spouses and children, who have tough time meeting their expenses. If something terrible happens, such as a medican emergency, it is beyond ones reach to pay. Having said all this, I also agree that people go to the US and UK to do their Ph.D's because it is perceived that life is "good", overall, whatever that means in ones own perception.

How would you compare this situation with India? Since I do not know any one who did their full time Ph.D in India.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I also feel that foreign postdocs are valued little ore compared to others independent of what other factors though Prof. Giridhar clarified this once.

Another thing I wanted to ask is, what about BITS Hyd? I am Andhra Pradesh and would like a job only in Hyd. In that case, I have three options only IITH, IIIT H and BITS H (which are autonomous and respectable institutes). How is this BITS when you compare with other institutes? I am not really bothered about govt or private. Just an academic comparison is required of course salary also matters

SM said...

Dear Prof. Madras,
I read your recent article in Current Science which indeed is a nice analysis of the state of research in India. I understand that the article focusses on research only. Whereas teaching is also a factor that should be taken into consideration. This is important since the article is comparing pure research institutes with Universities. Institutes like IICT, NCL, IISc have negligible BSc/MSc students. Therefore the professors in these institutes are (almost) full time researchers. Whereas University faculties have to spend at least 20 to 40% (or sometimes even 60%) of their time in teaching undergrads. Therefore, in addition to CFY (Citation per faculty per year) one must also calculate CFYS (CFY per student) to have a fair comparison between research institutes and universities.

Seeing IICT and NCL as the highest number of paper producers in Chemistry, reminds me an article by GR Desiraju "Science Education and
Research in India" in Economy and Political Weekly June 14 2008, where he writes "...Council of Scientific and Industrial Research: Once again, we have an organisation that was set up with the most laudable of objectives, namely, to act as a bridge between the academic and industrial worlds. However, the CSIR laboratories began to encroach upon activities which are traditionally in the purview of the universities – guiding students for a PhD degree, publishing scholarly papers, conducting qualifying examinations for PhD admissions, and giving out prizes and awards."

Anonymous said...

To Anon- Sept 14, 3.07PM,
Part of the problem is the scientists themselves. Look at even someone like Prof. Madras, who has some name and fame, still does not try to take strong action on crap administrators (he even suggests not to go against crappy guys, but keep asking them politely). Some of the big guys even support this holy crap red tapism by saying how much it is part and parcel of Indian system, never ever force someone to do their job, always go witht he flow etc. etc. I guess that will be the idea even from the Director. Then, who can help? If a new person tries to enforce normalcy, there are these big guys who will support the admin guys (probably despising the new guy's guts). Finally, the mess keeps rotting until a stage the good institute turns into a 'normal' university level! What next? Most of the permanent people have side busines of their own, they move hardly any file in a week, and then there are people who think that IISc is nowhere near top universities of the west keeping such tradition. Holy crap!

Anonymous said...

What name and fame does Prof. Madras have? Nothing. there are hundreds of similar faculty in IISc. What administrative power does he have? Nothing. He is not even chairman!

The best thing he can do to help you is to stop writing on his blog

Anonymous said...

Why do you want to abuse the author of the blog? If you do not like what he writes or what he has done, stay away. It is easy to criticize someone without doing anything.

Anonymous said...

One should know how Giridhar is even treated within his own department (Chemical Engineering, IISc). His students are harassed and abused by other Faculty in the same department. Incidentally, other professors spend in the coffee board most of the time with a HOT reserach topic: ``Giridhar's Junk publication vs novel ideas with zero publications''. Imagine, if Giridhar resigns, IISc Chem Engg will be under indain ocean.

Anonymous said...

If you are looking for an academic job in India, go to a new IIT. The administrative staff has yet learned the bullshit and they don't run little grocery shops on the side. You will get much less frustration.

Or, just go to one of the new private universities like the Ambani's and the Mittals have started. They have been able to attract high quality faculty. If you get 20 lakhs per annum, you can buy a Rs. 5000/- book from your own money without the frustration.

IISc has a lot of history, hence, IISc is history!

Anonymous said...

People like Prof. Madras are trying very hard to make a difference. There is a handful of faculty at every IIT/IISc that are devoted to their work, but it is because of them that the show runs.

I few months ago, I had requested Prof. Madras to compile some information for new faculty and he moved with lightning speed. Working with several other faculty members, he put together a new (unofficial) website for new faculty joining IISc that has tonnes of extremely useful information. The administration never bothered to put this together, but he did.

I cannot say the same about senior faculty members at the IIT I work for. So, don't write off the goodness of people so easily. I still believe that the pay/benefits for new faculty (Asst. Prof.) absolutely sucks.
But, you can still enjoy academic freedom at an IIT/IISc and if you ignore the negative people, you can get a lot done!

Bharat

Anonymous said...

this is out of the context:
I've just gone through a Science article and thought you all wld like to read it. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/329/5998/1466-b.pdf

This is India’s Courteous Creativity
by Dr. T. N. NARASIMHAN from UCB in response to the earlier EDITORIAL “IRREVERENCE AND INDIAN
science” (30 April, p. 547), R. A. Mashelkar.

Prof. Madras, sorry for hijacking your blog!!

Anonymous said...

@Bharat:

What you say is absolutely right, though I've got a different take. "People like Prof. Madras are trying very hard to make a difference". True, 100%. But the sad reality is, however hard they try, it won't make any difference - such people are very less in terms of absolute numbers. The system is beyond redemption and is slowly sinking to a collapse - although such good people are holding it back.

Now I don't know if this is good or bad; Often think that this is bad in the long run - because there are a few good people, the system at least runs and there is no impetus to change. What we need now is an accelerated collapse - and let a new higher ed framework rise in its place.(Imagine what will happen if 'those' 2 profs. move out of IISc chem eng dept).

Fully agree with you on the pay/benefits for new faculty - did the senior faculty take up their case effectively with the HRD admin?

Anonymous said...

Can any senior faculty of IIT system, who is involved in main administrative work (like director, dean, head etc.), throw some light on the rigid aspect of "years of experience" required for any faculty post (as per 6PC)? For e.g., most of IITs current advertisement says for "Professor" position minimum qualification required is 4 years at the level of "Associate Professor" at similar IIT system. However, at the end of ad. it also says that "criteria of minimum experience can be relaxed for exceptional candidates, if the panel feels so". My query is, has it been utilized so far in any IIT in the new 6PC system. kindly provide examples, if any.

Anonymous said...

When they say "exceptional" they probably mean... really exceptional!

Anonymous said...

Anon@ September 16, 2010 10:12 AM:

I looked up the citations records of faculty in chemical engineering of IISc. In 2009, excluding self-citations,

Giridhar: 382
All others in the department put together: 127

Yet, the department says that their average citation per faculty is around 50 per year. Bull ! How can you take average when one person is getting 75% of the total?

Anonymous said...

To Anon@September 19,

Yes, your analysis is very true. In fact, Chem Engg department without Prof. Madras can be barely compared with Anna University, Bombay University etc. I think this department in IISc should be closed if Prof madras chooses to join MRC, SSCU etc. IISC Engg department will be ranked better if Chem Engg department is closed...This is the right time. ..One minute..What about other Faculty (if Chem Engg dept closes)..Million Dollar question?

SKjain said...

Annon@19th September
The exceptional criteria is quite vague. In fact, the eligibilty after 6th PC for faculties is quite confusing. None of the directors dare to ask MHRD about more clarification. better you file RTI, then you will get the answer..

Anonymous said...

one questions

1. if anybody has done health insurances for parents (one of them > 65 yrs) then please share the contact number of the agent.

Giri@iisc said...

To Anons: Please stop posting personal messages about me. They are completely off-topic.

To Anon@September 20, 2010 8:12 AM:

IISc provides insurance to parents, if they are wholly dependent on you. You can take extra coverage up to 5 lakhs by paying extra premium (around 14,000 per year)

Thanks

Giridhar

saurav.iit said...

so finally IIT professors got the best deal with HAG and AGP of 12000.They represented their case to MHRD for their own interst and leaving Assistant Professors on the mercy of....

Anonymous said...

Just saw this story:
http://businessworld.in/bw/2010_09_21_Higher_Pay_Scale_For_IIT_IIM_Professors.html

This essentially means that the shameless senior faculty at the IITs/IISc screwed the new Assistant professors to get a few more pieces of silver.

A new faculty member at an IIT/IISc will still make the miserable 30,000 basic and will be placed in PB3. Assistant professors on Contract will make even less. How will they attract talented new faculty, who could make many times this salary in the private sector? Who cares?

Bye Bye IIT. I have a great offer from the private sector (30 LPA) and I am off to take it up. I am sure that with their increased salaries, my senior colleagues can now teach the additional classes that I won't be teaching. Plus, I will make sure that I will tell all the friends in the industry who were thinking of joining IITs to help their country that they can still help India by paying their taxes. Can you believe it, my new monthly taxes will be higher than my old salary at an IIT :-)

Giri@iisc said...

This is in response to
"This essentially means that the shameless senior faculty at the IITs/IISc screwed the new Assistant professors to get a few more pieces of silver."

Moving from PB4 to HAG scale will yield no additional benefits. A newly promoted professor will be placed in PB4 with the pay of 48,000 + 10,500 grade pay. Thus, he/she will get 58,500 in the first year. Subsequently, in 6 years or so, they will cross 67000, which is the starting scale for HAG.

Therefore, I do not think there is any monetary benefit. Knowledgeable people like iitmsriram can correct me.

Thanks

Giridhar

AS said...

Basic Salary...............30000.00
BasicSalary(with increment)30000.00
AGP.........................8000.00
DA.....(...35.%)...........13300.00
HRA....(...20.%)............7600.00
Transport.allownce..........5195.00
......................................
Total......................64095.00
Total(quarter in campus)...56495.00
..........Deductions..................
For pension.................5130.00
Income tax per month........5972.97
......................................
Take.home..................52992.03
Takehome(quarter in campus)45392.03

Any comments on the above salary calculation for AP position?

Anonymous said...

Hello AS,
Thanks for posting the detailed salary information for an AP position. Can you please shed some light in case a person joining as an AP has, say, 4 years of post-doctoral (academic+industrial) experience. I mean, in terms of the increments one would get on top of the 30K for the basic. Thank you very much for the informaiton.

Anonymous said...

Dear AS,
let X PhD in science with 3 years post-PhD experience. Most of them do MSc and PhD in continuation.
Now, Y PhD in engineering. Usually, in engineering, after BTech or MTech one goes for industry and teaching job. For example let us assume Y has 5 years of teaching and industry exper. and then he goes for PhD.
Now, X will be offer Assistant Professor at 30K , but Y will be AP on contarcr, as he has not 3 years of post-PhD experience.
In 6 years, X will move to PB-4 with 3 increaments and Y will be at 30K ..
This is what IITs are doing after 6th PC. They are misinterpreting 16th August 2009, notification, that to become AP at 30K one needs 3 years post-PhD experience. However, it is not at all mentione in notification..
Just see advert. of IIT Ropar last week in ToI (15th Sept.).

Prof respected Giri and iitmadras may throw some light on this..

Dr. SanjayKumar said...

Dear AS,
let X PhD in science with 3 years post-PhD experience. Most of them do MSc and PhD in continuation.
Now, Y PhD in engineering. Usually, in engineering, after BTech or MTech one goes for industry and teaching job. For example let us assume Y has 5 years of teaching and industry exper. and then he goes for PhD.
Now, X will be offer Assistant Professor at 30K , but Y will be AP on contarcr, as he has not 3 years of post-PhD experience.
In 6 years, X will move to PB-4 with 3 increaments and Y will be at 30K ..
This is what IITs are doing after 6th PC. They are misinterpreting 16th August 2009, notification, that to become AP at 30K one needs 3 years post-PhD experience. However, it is not at all mentione in notification..
Just see advert. of IIT Ropar last week in ToI (15th Sept.).

Prof respected Giri and iitmadras may throw some light on this..

Anonymous said...

I have 3 years of experience post MTech before I chose to do a PhD which took another 5 years. So do my friend, who has 4 years post mtech. We looked at acad positions in India - it was the time when 6 pc just got implemented; We were shocked to hear that we can't even get real AP posts, even at the bottom of the scale, @30000.

Forgot this chapter, moved on to industry and life is cool ever since! Won't even look at those positions ever.

Misinterpreting, or playing it safe, whatever you call it, i think it is a disservice.

KS

Dr. Sanjay Kumar said...

Dear KS
you and your freind are not alone.. I know so many who have sufficient post MTech experience and then moved to PhD are not applying to IIT, for this very reason.. In science with MSc you can teach in school only, so they have to do PHD to get academic position. so, for them post PhD is required. but this is not the case with engineering..
In fact, MHRD after 6th PC is not asking to consider post-PhD for AP at 30K. but these so called big directors or professors do not have that wisdom to clarify..
you see in science IISc ot IITs get 100's of application.. in engineering hardly few.. most of the young PhDs in engg. are prefering industry due to BIG MISINTERTRETAION BY IITS LIKE ROPAR, GANDINAGAR and so..
expect the oldest one IIT Roorkee is giving due weightage to pre-PhD experience.. thanks to PROF. SAXENA DIRECTOR.. HE IS AN ENGINEERING fellow.. may understand things clearly..
DEFINITELY IT MAY INVITE RTI IN NEAR FUTURE..

AS said...

@Anonymous September 24, 2010 2:24 AM:
AP salary with 4 increments.

Basic Salary 30000.00
Basic Salary (increment) 33600.00
AGP 8000.00
DA ( 35 %) 14560.00
HRA ( 20 %) 8320.00
Transport 5384.00
......................................
Total 69864.00
Tot (quarter in campus) 61544.00
..........Deductions..................
For pension 5616.00
Income tax per month 7013.06
......................................
Take home 57234.94
Take home(quarter in campus) 48914.94



Note, I am not an expert, nor do I draw a salary. I wrote a script to generate numbers taking info from the website made by the host of the blog.

Anonymous said...

Effective July, DA is 45%, check your calculations.

iitmsriram said...

This is about movement from PB4 to HAG scale for professors. There is not much financial benefit, maybe one 3% or Rs.2000 increment due to the 'promotion'. But may have implication in future for retirees. As of now, the minimum pension for those retiring as professor has been fixed at half of (37000+10500) and not half of (48000+10500) and this is as per the pay commission (not MHRD) notification. For those retiring from HAG scale, the same rule would put the minimum pension at half of 67000, so there would be a significant difference in pension with the implementation of the HAG scale (but only for those who retired prior to implementation of 6th pc).

iitmsriram said...

AS's numbers (and terminology) are a bit off; what is referred to by AS as "Basic Salary" is actually called "pay in pay band" often abbreviated to just pay; this pay in pay band + agp is defined as basic. Also, transport allowance is 3200 + DA thereon, I am not sure what formula AS has used. HRA would be 30% of basic in the six major metros, 20% in another 70 or so cities and 10% elsewhere. Finally, increments are calculated on basic (=pay in pay band + agp). So, AS's projection on pay should actually read as follows.

Pay .......................30000
AGP ........................8000
Basic .....................38000
DA ....(now 45 %)..........17100
HRA (assuming major metro).11400
Transport.allowance.........4640
...................................
Total......................71140
Total(without HRA).........59740

Of course, campus residents would pay some nominal license fee for the quarters (rate varies depending on institution and type of quarters).

As for AS's other calculation, since increment is on basic, the pay would be 30000+4*3=12% of basic (=38000) = 30000+4560 or 34560, giving basic of 42560. To get 30000+8000, 3 years experience is required, so 4 increments on this would suggest 7 years experience, which is sufficient to apply for associate prof. Ignoring that, if the experience includes 3 years at a level that can be recognized as equivalent to assistant professor at IIX, then one is eligible to be appointed directly into PB4 at a pay of 37000 + agp of 9000 or minimum basic of 46000. If the original post was about 4 years total experience, 3 years is requirement for 30000 pay (else one gets only assistant professor on contract at a lower pay), so one would get one increment or a pay of 31140 + agp of 8000 for a basic of 39140.

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor Madras,

I have a query. You may not be able to give a definite answer as the question pertains to IIMs, but I thought you will definitely know the process in IISc / IIts and may be guide me if a similar process is followed in IIMs. I am completing my PhD in management from a US university ranked around 50, and wish to go back and join one of the top 3 IIms. My question is - what is the time taken (typically) from the date I apply to the date I get (assuming I do) an appointment letter? Even an educated guess will be very helpful.

Thank you,

ABC

Anonymous said...

I have applied for Assistant Professor to IIT, however all the advertisements mention that it is rolling advertisement. What is the time frame involved from the date of applying to getting the offer letter provided I am selected

Anonymous said...

Can some one answer this question:

After 3 years of post Mtech experience in industry, I went for higher studies and finished PhD in engineering when I was just before 33. Was very interested in coming back to India on an acad posting, so decided to stay on as a post-doc, despite offers from industry. The work was very interesting and unique, explored the various dimensions - and in fact, got carried away. Now, it's been almost 4 years and I'm almost 37. In terms of research output, both PhD and postdoc periods have been extraordinary - I probably have more papers than many people at the Assoc. prof level at IIXs. (most 2 author papers - not by way of merely being a member of a group). And I do have an excellect
acad record throughout.

It seems I can't even apply to IIXs now - post Mtech exp is not counted, while my age will lead to an automatic disqualification, Even to the post of 'Assistant Professor' ! Now, tell me, Am I a fool? Looks like.

kumar

Anonymous said...

@kumar

Is the age bar so critical in IIXs? Can you not apply directly for Associate level, if you think you are at that level? I am sure there will be some way. May be contacting some people in your departments of interests may help. My experience shows that contacting some professor directly always helps instead of applying to a generic faculty search committee.

abc

saurav.iit said...

Dear Kumar
Well for Associate you need to have taching experience at Assistant level. well, as far as age is concerned, it is not so rigid. by the way, what is your area.. if it is computer science or electrical, it may be relaxed..

Anonymous said...

dear Saurav,

I've just moved on to industrial R & D; no, I am not dying to join IIXs at the Asst. prof level - don't intend to subject myself to this humiliation. I just brought to light an interesting real-life situation.

Yes, I know about this rather odd teaching requirement.. that is precisely I asked this question. I don't get what is so great about teaching experience at the asst. prof level. In North America and Europe, competant people can move freely between industry and univs at all levels (agreed, some one has to be very distinguished at the full prof level) - but in IIXs, it seems the door is virtually closed beyond entry level! What are they trying to achieve?

I am in materials engg & thanks for all those took time to answer,

kumar

Anonymous said...

What are the chances of moving back to a US/Canadian University in a tenured Associate Professor position after one secures tenure/promotion in IISc to the level of Associate Professor?

Has this been done by anyone before?

Prabhakar

Anonymous said...

Dear Prabhakar,
I believe that moving from a faculty position in India to a tenured position in the US is difficult, but not impossible. I know that sounds vague and uninformative. But here are a few things I think that matter.

1) US universities don't tend to invite people for interviews from abroad for financial reasons (Although you can request for a visit combining it with a a conference) and that they is enough pool to choose from in the US itself.

2) The budget cuts in the US are making it harder and harder to get an academic position. So, there is touch competetion.

3) I understand that the heads of the departments try to hire people at tenure-track level eventhough they advertise for all three levels.

4) Finally, your process becomes extrememly stream-lined and focused if you have research collaborations in the US and you apply in that particular department.

Hope that is some insight.


To kumar,
I understand that 35 years age limit for an AP position in India is not imposed strictly, but apparently it's their preference.

- K

Anonymous said...

Thanks K! Are you aware of any IISc/IIT faculty members who have moved to US/Canada in the recent past as Associate Professor?

Prabhakar

Giri@iisc said...

I did get an offer for an associate professor with tenure in a top 20 US university in 2006. They did not "interview" me but talked to me on the phone. They were looking for someone in my area and they still talked to me even though I told them that I will not quit India. Anyway, they told me to reconsider again after 2 years or so, but I will not reconsider :-)

Anonymous said...

@Prabhakar

Look for Prof. sriram shastry at UCSC; he was a professor in Physics department of IISc before.

In short, if you are good and continue to publish well, you will a position in US later.

abc

STR said...

Dear Prof Sriram,
Thanks for clarifying about the salary. Good to know the correct figures.

I heard, the increments are negotiated by the candidate with the department. Is that true or the department calculates the number of increments straight from the candidates' CV (for example, PhD date)?

Thanks.

Ankur Kulkarni said...

Prof Sriram,

Can you please provide numbers for the "On contract" position too?s

iitmsriram said...

@Kumar,

Post MTech experience does count, though several IITs seem to be avoiding the issue by specifying post PhD experience in their advertisements. My department (IITM Aero) has hired 10 faculty members in the last 6 years and 2 of these were hired as asso profs, both with more or less zero teaching experience. The number of asso prof hires tends to be relatively small since we dont get many 'fresh' applicants at that level. I myself applied for asso prof position (about 15 years ago) and though I was offered only ass prof, I was made asso prof about a year after I joined. It is completely bogus to claim that teaching experience is required to be appointed as asso prof; the exact wording from the ministry circular is "minimum of six years Teaching / Industry / Research experience, of which at least three years should be at the level of Assistant Professors, Senior
Scientific Officer / Senior Design Engineer".

@STR,

Departments have little clout in determining increments at the time of hiring, pay fixation is done by the selection / interview committee. Default pay setting will be as per years of experience, but exemplary performance can be and is recognized with increments by the committee, and the department (and HoD, in particular) can play a role in highlighting the achievements of candidates.

iitmsriram said...

Ankur, here are the numbers for assistant professor on contract.

(assuming fresh PhD with no experience, so basically minimum pay)

Pay = 20140
AGP = 6000
Basic = 26140
DA @ 45% = 11763
HRA (major metro) = 7842
Transport allowance = 4640

Gross = 50385
Gross without HRA = 42543

With one year experience, the Basic increases by 3% and the AGP goes up to 7000.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Sriram,

I have an experience of about 2 years (post-Ph.D.), but I have been offered an AP position with AGP of 6000 on a pay of 27920 (PB-3). As it seems, the AGP depends fully on the years of experience. So, didn't they count my experience in fixing my pay band?

As I also learnt from one of the posts on this blog that the contract position automatically rolls over to a normal position after 3 years of experience. So if I join now with AGP of 6000 (and 2 years of experience), will my salary will be raised from PB-3 to PB-1 directly (by bypassing PB-2) after one year?

Thanks.

Laxman.

Dr. Sanjay Kumar said...

Respected iitmsriram
"Post MTech experience does count, though several IITs seem to be avoiding the issue by specifying post PhD experience in their advertisements. "
Sir, you are the HoD of one of the finest IITs.. You can highlight this issue to the concerned authority.. you are shortlisting candidates for your deptt..so, you must be following the post MTech or pre-PhD experience..so why not others
I request Prof. Giri and other senior faculty members to highlight this issue.. otherwise, it will be very difficult to get faculties in Engineering streams as most of them have considerable pre-PhD expr. before going for PhD. if it is not considered, they will suffer.. for science stream they will gain as most of them do PhD in continuation..

Ankur Kulkarni said...

Hi Laxman,

Congratulations on getting the position.

1. Can you clarify if 27920 is the pay in the band or basic (=pay in the band + AGP)?

2. You should be able to move to PB-4 upon becoming asst prof. (I don't know what you mean about PB-1,PB-2) Also, IMO, given that you have 2 years of experience, you should be getting AGP of 7000.
Prof Sriram can you confirm if this is right?

Regards,
Ankur

iitmsriram said...

Laxman,

Ankur is right, check your offer letter; with one year of experience, the pay works out to 20930 + agp 7000 = 27930 basic (or 27920 with some rounding off). If above is correct, it would appear that you have been given credit for one year experience. With this, after 2 more years, you will roll over to pay of 30000 + agp 8000 = 38000 basic. It will take 3 years AFTER THAT to roll over to PB4 which would be pay of 37000 + agp 9000 = basic of 46000.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Ankur and Prof. Sriram.

In my offer letter it states that the basic pay is 27920 and AGP is 6000. Is it wrongly written in the offer letter?

I wanted to ask in my previous post that will my AGP roll over from 6000 to directly 8000 after one year when I will have 3 years of experience?
Now, can the selection committee count only one year of experience (or no experience at all!) even though I have 2 years of post-Ph.D. experience? It seems they have done so in my case.

Laxman

Anonymous said...

Dear Laxman,

In more stablished places it seems that this is the practice. Congratulations for your achievement.

Anonymous said...

I know a candidate who has been hired at one of the older IITs as Asst. Prof. (on contract) with 30000 + 8000 scale. He had 2 years post M.Tech experience + 1 year post PhD experience and an excellent CV. So, in total of 3 year experience but he is hired "on contract". However his salary scale is same as regular AP. That suggests selection committee has a big role to play.

Prof. T

Anonymous said...

If salary is one of the issues for engineering faculties (read disciplines where getting industry jobs are easier) I would think someone would have the very obvious idea of decoupling salaries in these disciplines from that of the general body of faculties. Or at least try this in some of our best institutions which could be trusted not to misuse this ? This already exists in the sense that IIX faculties start out a bit higher than other institutions.

Maybe if our national academies cannot be trusted to produce an unplagiarized report none of our institutions can be trusted not to get their favorite ones higher salaries ? Even if such powers are misused if it attracts some bright people then that would be a gain.

I realize throwing money does not solve all problems but clearly there is an issue with money ... maybe that is under dispute too ?

Thanks
T.D.

Dr. SanjayKumar said...

@Laxman
You may be placed in PB-3 at any basic recommended by selcetion committee. AGP of 7000 may suggest that you are given some credit to your prior exper or/and higher AGP besed upon your performance in interview.
But, you have to continue as AP on contract for 03 years to move to AGP of 8000.

Anonymous said...

I have been in IISc for >3 years as an Asst. Professor and I am seriously thinking of moving to IIT Kanpur. Should I wait for another 3 years till I get my promotion, or is it possible to get an Associate Professor rank in IITK? I had 4 years of post-PhD experience when I joined IISc. So, I have 7 years of post-PhD experience in all. Most of my publications in major international journals are from my industry and post-doc experience.
Very few after joining IISc.

Roy

Anonymous said...

@Roy,

Have you tried moving to IIT-B? How was your experience in dealing with them?

Anonymous said...

It was commented somewhere in this blog that the contract position gets automatically rolled-over to a permanent position. Then, if AGP is 7000, which means 1 year of experience, then it should take only two more years to move from 'contract' to 'permanent':- as per the rule!

Laxman, if your basic is 27920 then the AGP has to be 7000, not 6000 as suggested by Prof. Sriram above. There could be some printing error.

Swagat

iitmsriram said...

@Prof.T.,
I would venture a guess - this candidate did not appear in person for the interview? IITM routinely offers contract positions (only) to such candidates.
@SanjayKumar,
If the candidate was given 7000 AGP on the basis of experience, it will not take three more years to move to AGP 8000. The actual position will be recorded in the selection committee proceedings, but I would guess that it would note that the candidate has 1 year experience; in which case, after 2 more years, the candidate will be automatically moved to 8000 AGP.
@Roy,
My perception (based on talking to a lot of people and observing case histories) is that it is easier to become asso prof in IITK and IITB. IITM is a bit more difficult and IISc even more so. But going from asso prof to prof is relatively easy at IITM and a bit tougher at IITB, while it is really tough at IISc. These things depend on the directors and five years down the line, this picture may not prevail.

iitmsriram said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

@Prof. IITMSriram,

Yes, this person did not appear for interview in person as he is in US. He was interviewed over the phone.

Thanks

Prof. T

Anonymous said...

"I request Prof. Giri and other senior faculty members to highlight this issue.. otherwise, it will be very difficult to get faculties in Engineering streams "

Prof. Giri is not a senior professor. He is less than 42 years old and holds no position to make such decisions.

Don't worry about getting faculty. IISc receives lots and lots of applications for its faculty positions. We do not care about pre or post M.Tech experience. If you are good, you will be selected.

ABCD

Dr. Sanjay Kumar said...

@ABCD
IISc is not only the place of learning in India. Lots of new IITs, NITs,IISERs,central universities are coming up. you just ask the number of applications in Engineering?? most of the PhDs are joining industry, as they have considerable pre-PhD experience, which is made zero in these big IITs..

Anonymous said...

Dr. Sanjay Kumar,

I agree with you. I had more than 10 years of experience in the US in major research labs with many publications/patents and I applied to an IIX. They were only ready to hire me as an Assistant Professor because most of my experience was pre-PhD. The industry in India was willing to hire me as a Principal Engineer considering ALL my experience. I got the feeling that the IIXs are more concerned about following the rulebook to the letter than considering the potential of a person to deliver world-class research.

I chose to join the industry, which was also offering me a 40 lpa package while as an Assistant Professor, I would only make about 7 lpa. In many US/Canadian universities, they give adequate weightage to industry experience and don't distinguish between the pre-/post PhD experience that much. When these institutes are having such a tough time hiring good people, why are they so anal about the rulebook? Their international rankings are pretty much in the toilet. And look at places like IIT Kharagpur and IITM: there is so much inbreeding/hiring of their own PhDs that I don't think any new thoughts ever come to the campus.

Ram

Anonymous said...

Dear ABCD,
I was hovering ont hese boards asking sometime back. I have a good profile adn applied to IISc last year. I came for interview and all was fine. Chairman was happy (vocally) and told em that I have good chance. I waited for the their letter etc. During the same time I got a position in UK with assured funding. I had a debate whether to wait for IISc verdict or to joing UK institute. I asked permission from the UK institute to give me more time and with difficulty they agreed.
Finally I heard back from IISC. It seems I am not selected..answer was I am aged above 35 ( I was 35 when applied, but now 36) and itseems they require someone below 35!
For those who want to apply in India, please have a good godfather (or godfathers) and preferably have PhD from the same institute. High impact factor papers are nothing here!
SP

Anonymous said...

SP,
You may consider to apply in IITs if you really want to return back. IITB, IITM and IITK have relaxed this age criteria in some extraordinary cases.

Anonymous said...

there is no age criterion in IISc also. We recently hired one faculty who was 37 in my department and my neighbouring department hired someone who is 38.

Anonymous said...

anon above, were these two hired as Asst. Professor or Associate Professor?

Anonymous said...

assistant professor; appointments at the associate professors are very few unless the candidate is an associate professor elsewhere. Mine is a science department !

Dr. SanjayKumar said...

Dear Ram
"I got the feeling that the IIXs are more concerned about following the rulebook to the letter than considering the potential of a person to deliver world-class research. "
There is no rule not to consider pre-PhD experience as pointed by iitmsriram. In your case and so many other cases, IIXs is loosing brilliant people..IIXs will be a science university soon as the so called rule book will favour science PhDs as for them, they have mostly post-PhD experience as they will seldom get chance to work in industry or academics after post graduation.. of course, Govardan Mehta is a science fellow and most of the babus in MHRD do not understand, what are the statistics of engineering faculties..
you will see in near futute so many RTIs to IIxs were they are ignoring the case like you..

DSen said...

It is surprising, how IIT Guwahati has recruited so many faculties without their PhD awarded. I know some of them continued for more than one year before PhD degeree.
Now if one can work in IIXs as senior lecturer, how they can ignore pre-PhD experience when they have peformed teaching and research in IIXs.

gautam said...

IIT Guwahati appoints you on 6000 if you have submitted your phD thesis. You can join only after submission of your thesis. We do not wait for you to defend your thesis. Of course, since you will be on contract, if you do not defend in a year or two, we can ask you to go. Further, we automatically let you go to 8000/- after three years of submission of your thesis (no matter when you join us - so suppose you submitted in January 2010 and an interview was held on March 2010. You were made an offer at 6000 AGP and you joined in July 2010. You will get to AGP 7000 in July 2011, and to AGP 8000 and a regular position on July 2013 (all increments are on July 1 nowadays).
If you are aborad at the time of an interview, we will make an offer if we find you suitable provided there are at least 2 letters of reference (at least one fo which must be from your supervisor - unless circumstances are special).
Science and Engineering are treated equally. Of course demand and supply is at play in selecting persons.

Gautam Barua
Director
IIT Guwahati

DSen said...

@Gautam Barua Sir

"Further, we automatically let you go to 8000/- after three years of submission of your thesis"
Sir, it means that you are considering pre-PhD experience from the date of submission. It happens so many times that PhD defence is after one year or so.
I really appreciate this approach. as a candidate is awarded PhD degree based on the thesis one has submitted. so, all IIXs should consider atleast the experience once gain after PhD submission not from the date of defence.
Sir,what is your say about the experience one gets post MTech, but before PhD. The MHRD notification dated 18th August does not say to exclude pre-PhD experience for faculty recruitment. well, for AP to move to PB-4 one should have 03 years exper. at 30K. similarly, for Associate 06 years and min. of 03 at AP. now one has 03 years of pre-PhD experience and worked as AP at 30K+8K for 03 years, he/she should be eligible for Assoc. Professor, provided one fulfills other criterian.
Now foe science stream, you know it very well life starts after post PhD. but in engineering how many do PhD in continuation.. BE+ME+PhD.. so if IIXs ignore pre-PhD exper. then definetly science faculties will get edge, and this is happening in so many new IIXs.
Sir people like you can convince IIXs system,as I know you are regarded as one of the most motivatinf directors pan-IIT.
waiting for your kind response
Thanks,
Dr. DSen
Lead R&D Engineer,

Anonymous said...

To Anons on Oct 1,
I am not so sure there is no age criteria in IISc. It is surely not that my profile is bad or there is no need for my expertise ( i have two offers here in UK, and the one I am accepting is high profile place). I was told that IISc Chairman and others wanted me but age criteria was THE problem...and so they could not take me..
Unfortunately i am no longer 35 and I cant tolerate another humiliation from IIXs, and going to stick with my job here. All the best to those who want to go back and do something good to the Country we love!.
cheers
SP

Anonymous said...

Dear SP,

I remember your case sometime back on these boards and even cationed you. Had a feeling that something of this sort was in the making. Don't be in a hurry - if you want to come back, you can do so at a higher level later in life. This is just not the place for young engineering faculty aspirants anyway.

ks

Anonymous said...

I recently appeared for faculty interview in the Electrical Engineering Dept. at IIT Indore. The interview was held at IIT Bombay, the mentoring IIT. Around 30 candidates were called for the interview which spanned 4 days. There were candidates from all the research areas in Electrical Engineering (Electrical machines, Power electronics, Control systems, Microelectronics, Communication, Signal processing etc.).

I haven’t received any communication regarding the outcome of the interview. However, from the IIT Indore Website I found that 4 selected candidates have already joined.

It is a bit surprising that all the selected candidates are from the same research area. The research interests of the 4 selected candidates, as given in the IIT Indore website, are:


1) Semiconductor Devices: Physics, Simulation and Modelling, Novel MOS devices in bulk/SOI Technology (Planar Single/Double Gate, Vertical FinFETs, Surrounding/Cylindrical Gate MOSFET, Junctionless MOSFET) for low–voltage analog/RF and digital applications, .....

2) Multigate MOSFET Modeling (Square and Circular Cross-Section, Double Gate (DG) MOSFET, FinFET etc.) and their Circuit Applications in Memories, Ultra Low Power Digital & Analog Circuit Design and their Technology, FPGA based Design......

3) Semiconductor thin film growth; design, fabrication and characterization of opto-electronic devices (lasers and photodetectors). Nano devices based on Si-Ge and ZnO, broadband anti-reflection coating for lasers, surface passivation for detector ....

4) Organic electronic/photonic devices and their applications, Photoluminescence spectroscopy, thin film fabrication/characterization. Si nano devices, Single electron devices, Bulk and SOI MOSFETs, Low frequency noise in MOSFETs, MOSFET based sensors, Low power information processing circuits and RF-SET....

If the intention was to choose candidates only from a particular research area, why did they shortlist candidates from other areas? (It is unlikely that all the candidates from a particular area performed well than others in the interview)

Another interesting point is that the selected candidates have 33, 24, 12 and 10 journal publications, many in science journals. Getting so many journal publications may be difficult in other areas of Electrical Engineering during PhD and postdoc.


--K

Anonymous said...

Thanks KS, but I am from Biology and not engineering. Still dissappointing becasue word is that a person with much below profile is selected.
I guess there is need to streamline selections across IIXs. They should identify and write down criteria and like other good places make a ghost profile of a person they want to hire!
To our Country as whole, the reality of economic boom will be shortlived if the steps taken at this moment are not well thought of. What happened with CWG (and what will happen-an eyewash is waiting) comes to mind.
cheers
SP

Anonymous said...

Hello K,

It is quite possible that the candidates were really good and even if there was intent to hire people from other areas they were too good to let go ! An equally plausible explanation is that one or more of them were already selected and the interview process was a mere formality.Unfortunately the latter happens often and is very difficult to prove or prevent.

Interestingly, none of the AP's have undergraduate engineering degrees from IIT's.

AL

Anonymous said...

AL

It is more likely that most of them had Ph.D from IIT/IISc and their research supervisor (or close friends of them) were in the selection committee.

Anonymous said...

Anon Above,
you are right. Most people hired in ME dept are from IITs. Not that they are not good, but given my experience in interviewing candidates for Indore, the lot didn't have any other applications and there was a tendency to push their own. One interesting difference between our local advisors and "foreign" advisors is that the local dudes blindly recommend everyone of their students unfairly without telling us the truth. I think it will hurt the system overall.

K

Dr.SKumar said...

@GautamBarua,IIT Guwahati
"Further, we automatically let you go to 8000/- after three years of submission of your thesis (no matter when you join us - so suppose you submitted in January 2010 and an interview was held on March 2010. You were made an offer at 6000 AGP and you joined in July 2010. You will get to AGP 7000 in July 2011, and to AGP 8000 and a regular position on July 2013 (all increments are on July 1 nowadays).
"
: Sir, X submitted in January 2010 and Joined IITG in July 2010. so, in July 2013 he will move to 30K+8K.
Now, if X defended his thesis in December 2010 after joining IITG, when he will move to PB-4, either July 2016(6 years after his joining) or December 2016(6 years after his defence)??
This is the question in minds of so many like us who are willing to apply to IITG, one of the best managed IIXs..
Thanks,
Dr.SKumar

Anonymous said...

Anon @October 6, 2010 4:00 PM
“It is a bit surprising that all the selected candidates are from the same research area.”

It is not only that all the selected candidates are from the same research area, the area itself is surprising. Research interests of the selected candidates are more oriented towards physics/chemistry than core electrical engineering. It might be just a coincidence that the director of the IIT is from chemistry department.

Anonymous said...

Dear --k

There may be some more selected candidates in different areas who have not joined yet. It may just be a coincident that the candidates who have joined, are of the same research interests.

gautam said...

Re: Dr. SKumar's query -
After three years at 30,000+8000. a person will move to PB4. So it is not the date of submission, but the date of going to 8000 that will determine the date. Anyway, we haven't faced this situation as yet and so we there may be changes. We expect a person to have become an Assoc Prof. by the time 6 years after submission are over! So the PB4 for APs are only for non-performers!

K: IITG is looking for persons with EE background (Power systems, machines). So if you are in these categories, please apply. Even though we have had an ECE (the dept is to be renamed EEE soon) selection recently, we can offer visiting appointments to good candidates.

Dr. SKumar said...

@GautamBarua,IIT Guwahati
Sir, the main concern is: Suppose X joins IITG after submitting PhD thesis in January 2010. X defended his PhD in Sepetmeber 2010. Now the period of 09 months before the award of PhD will be counted for the required 06 years expereince for associate professor or not?
If yes, then only joining after submission will help the concerned faculty.
Now, before announcement of MHRD notification on 18August 2009, so many joined with submitting the PhD and after the announcement, they were moved to 30K+8K, after the defence. Now the period they spent before 18th August 2009 as senior lecturer, should be conuted for them to move to PB-4. such cases must be there in IIxs including IITG..
Thanks,
Dr.SKumar

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know about the faculty interview schedule of IIT Delhi?
-B

Anonymous said...

Are the assistant professor position at NISER and IIX equivalent? Because on their advertisement dated June 2010, NISER has mentioned that the basic pay is 29500 compared to 38000 of IIX.

-BUP

iitmsriram said...

@BUP,

NISER is under Dept of Atomic Energy and the pay scales (and even faculty cadre structure) there are (presently) tied to equivalent Scientist posts - assistant professor is Scientist E-I, reader is Scientist E-II etc. These do not match up with any other faculty pay scales. IISER scales are equivalent to IIX.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr. Giridhar,

I have recently offered a Asst. Prof. position (in contract) at IIT Mandi. They have offered me "Scale of the pay" Rs. 15600-39100 in payband 3, with the intitial salary admissible of Rs 23740 (includes 12-non compounded increments)+ AGP of Rs 7000 + other allowances. I have couple of years of post Ph.D. experience. I am bit confuse about what to make out with this salary structure. Please let me know what is the basic salary and how much I will get in hand. Also, I am expecting a offer from one of the established IIT. Do you think I can bargain regarding the offer with this new IIT?
best regards,
Shyam

Anonymous said...

@BUP:

NISER's 29500 pay should be compared with IIT's 30000 pay. Not with 38000 basic which is (30000 pay +8000 AGP).

Also, NISER may give 20% of basic pay as PRIS.

Anonymous said...

Hello all,

I accepted an offer for an AP position with AGP of 6000 when my post-PhD experience was a little over one year. I asked for an extension of the joining date which was approved by the institute.
I will join in the beginning of next year when I will have more than two years of experience. At the time of joining, when I will have 2 years of post-Ph.D. experience, will my AGP be still 6000? Thanks!

Anoop

iitmsriram said...

@anon5:48pm,

As @BUP has posted, the 29500 is basic = pay + grade pay, not just pay. Check out the advertisement at http://niser.ac.in/notices/2010/Advt_FC_All.pdf which states that 29500 is basic, clearer if you see the advertisement for the next higher reader cadre. The advertisement also mentions about 20% PRIS likely.

Anonymous said...

Can anybody provide me detailed information about the salary strucutre i.e., intitial salary admissible of Rs 23740 (includes 12-non compounded increments)+ AGP of Rs 7000 + other allowances

Shyam

Dr. SanjayKumar said...

@Shyam
I think the starting pay of AP(contract) is 20140+AGP6000. you might have got two increaments (3%of basic+AGP) on this and as you may have one year exper. AGP is 7000.

Anonymous said...

If you have no experience, your AGP is 6k. With one year exp. it is 7k. However, an AGP of 8k is possible only with 3 years of experience. So what AGP will be given to someone who has 2 years of exp.?

Nandu.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar and Prof. Sriram,

I have offers from two IITs; in one of these offers the AGP is 6000/- while in the other it is 7000/-. I have about two years of experience at present.
As I can see, one of these IITs took into account my experience but the other didn't.

Is it normal that even with 2 years of experience one can be given the AGP of only 6000/-? As, ofcourse, it is a contract position, when will my AP position be regularized? I guess, after one year with AGP of 7000/- and after 2 years with AGP of 6000/-.

I will be grateful for your response.
Otherwise, you may choose to ignore this post also as the other posts above on similar topic were ignored.
Thank you.

Arpit.

iitmsriram said...

Arpit,

As per the ministry circulars, fresh PhD gets 6000 agp, after one year of post-PhD experience it is 7000 agp and with three years of experience (not mentioned as post-PhD, but excludes experience gained while pursuing PhD) it is 8000 agp. It also appears that some IITs are interpreting all the above experience clauses to mean post-PhD. From your mail, it is not clear if your experience is post-PhD. This may be the reason for the difference. Also, the selection committee is to determine how much experience credit should be given, so depending on where you gained the experience, you may or may not get credit for it. 6000 and 7000 agp scales are contract positions and even the 8000 agp position can be a contract position depending on the individual circumstances. Ignoring all this, in general, 6000 agp appointment will be converted into regular (non-contract) position with 8000 agp after 3 years and 7000 agp appointment will be similarly converted after 1 or 2 years (2 years experience also gets only 7000 agp at the time of appointment). It is because there are so many variables and the details of your particular case are not known that it is not possible to give a simple answer to your question as "after one year" or whatever. It is not that myself or our host wish to ignore such queries.

Anonymous said...

Arpit,

You think Prof. Madras has time for your queries which all discuss about Rs. 1000. You may make Rs. 1000 by 10 min of consulting. Queries that discuss getting a position, doing well in that position make sense. However, most of the queries in this forum now are asking about Rs. 1000 less or more. Is this so important?

SB

Anonymous said...

A while back, IITMSRIRAM on September 24, 2010 11:12 PM writes that transport allowance for AP (30k+8K) is 4640 (3200 +DA). (The DA @45 % = 17100)

According to formula listed by Prof. Madras it is 3,200 + 15% of DA (3200+2565= 5765)

Yes it is a minor difference but still would like to know how it is calculated.

Also looking at a standing ad for SN Bose Center for basic sciences PB3: Rs 15,600–39,100 + Grade pay of Rs 7600 (for Reader);
Gross salary (min.): Rs 56,265

Can i assume that it includes everything(Basic+GP+DA+TA+Telephone) other than HRA on a basic of 30+8k ?

Thanks in advance
TD

Dr. SanjayKumar said...

@IITMSRIRAM, Oct 22
"As per the ministry circulars, fresh PhD gets 6000 agp, after one year of post-PhD experience it is 7000 agp and with three years of experience (not mentioned as post-PhD, but excludes experience gained while pursuing PhD) it is 8000 agp. It also appears that some IITs are interpreting all the above experience clauses to mean post-PhD."
As per advert. for faculty recruitment, IIT Roorkee is considering pre-PhD experience.
Also, IIT Guwhati is also considering pre-PhD relevant experience.
Thanks to Prof. Gautam Barua and Prof. Saxena directors of IITG and IITR for correctly interpreting the MHRD notifications. This will definetly encourage ENGINEERING PHD TO APPLY TO THESE IITs AS most of them have quality pre-phD exper. either in Industry or academics.
Hope othet IITs also follow this. otherwise, Enginering phD will go to other palces not at all Academics!!

Anonymous said...

Dear SB,

"You think Prof. Madras has time for your queries which all discuss about Rs. 1000. "

Especially, for some one who has Swarnajayanthi fellowship, Bhatnagar award and J.C. Bose fellowship. This alone will fetch Rs. 25,000+15,000+20,000 = 60,000 per month extra from the salary

Ash

Anonymous said...

Ash: So what point are you trying to make here???

Anonymous said...

anon above:

The point is that 1000 is a small amount for a person who makes 60,000 extra from his salary.

Ash

Anonymous said...

Based on some of the questions, the point is that people (mainly coming from abroad) do worry if their salary as a faculty is going to be enough to cover for their family's expenses. And I agree, for those who have many responsibilities, 1000 rupees can make a difference.

From a personal point of view, if you have some savings to start up your life (e.g., furniture) it would be better. Otherwise, if your family is small you can also make it. For example, in Bangalore an AP making 30+8 K and living in quarters will get enough to keep his family and have some extra money for other things like savings.

Of course, depending on your work you can later apply for fellowships or consultancy.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Prof. Sriram for your reply.

It is not only about Rs. 1k friends. If someone who has 2 years of exp. and is still getting 1k AGP then it means that his position will be regularized from his contract position after atleast three years, when he will actually have 5 years of exp. Obviously, it will affect his future promotions as well. Don't you think it is unfair?

Arpit.

dilawar... said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dilawar... said...

Never seen so many middle class people showing their true self. Love your blog Prof. Giri. Its has been quite useful. Now Ashok Mitra and Ashish Nandy making sense to me. I don't think any of them are in quite a mental shape to join any IIT's or IISc. They are not even bold enough to reveal their identities. Sissies!

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Ash,

Regarding your comment, I am not a receipt of J.C. Bose fellowship. Even if I were, one can not get money from both Swarnajayanthi and J.C. Bose fellowships. You have to choose either one.

I have not responded for the queries regarding Rs 1000 differences because ultimately the AGP is decided by the selection committee and there is little anyone else can do. Further, there are so many unknown parameters like pre-Ph.D, post-Ph.D, date of submission, date of award etc. that generalizations can not be made for an anonymous comment.

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Madras,

I have been reading your and Prof. Abi's blogs for quite some time, and I have been very impressed by the frank opinion in your blogs.

As a graduate student in the US (before I became an IIX faculty), I was quite impressed with the "freedom of speech" that tenured faculty enjoyed. Apparently, you cannot be fired for speaking your mind, once you have tenure.

How are things on that front in India? Can I be fired for speaking my mind? What topics do I need to avoid? Is it easier to get away with saying anything if you are "tenured" (Associate and Above) as opposed to being an Asst. Professor?

Sorry, if this is slightly outside the scope of this post. May be, you can enlighten us with a different post on this topic.

Bharat

Giri@iisc said...

In India, you can not be fired. There is no tenure. The appointment is permanent. You can not be fired for incompetence, speaking your mind etc.

Anonymous said...

>What are the chances of moving back to a >US/Canadian University in a tenured Associate >Professor position after one secures >tenure/promotion in IISc to the level of Associate >Professor?
>
>Has this been done by anyone before?
>
>Prabhakar
>

It is my understanding that due to US immigration regulations, foreign nationals cannot be awarded tenure unless they hold a green card since a tenured position is, in principle, a permanent position. In special circumstances, some Universities may initially put the chosen candidate on a so-called "Parallel" track for a year or so and formally award tenure after they obtain a green card. In the vast majority of situations, mid-career foreign nationals are offered Associate Professor positions on a three-year tenure track.

However, Canadian Universities are in a position to directly offer tenured faculty positions to foreign nationals. The candidate selected for the position undergo a formal tenure review process as an external candidate before the final unconditional offer is made. The procedure involves internal and external review of teaching+research dossiers and approval of the tenure committee recommendation by the University VC/President.

One of my students went through this process last year and he made this transition from an untenured position in Europe! So in response to your question: yes, in theory, such a move to Canada is possible.

Anonymous said...

I did PhD from IIT Kanpur and considering a postdoc offer from university of WITS, Johannesburg, South Africa (http://www.wits.ac.za/). The offer is good. But I am not sure about the reputation of this university and how much this experience help me in getting a faculty position in IITs. Can you people suggest something?

--H

Anonymous said...

Prof. Giridhar,

I just saw the new faculty web-site you have created and I think it was a life saver for me as a new person to IISc. Thank you so much for putting this information online!

My PhD students have asked me many questions on the procedure to graduate from IISc. How many exams, how many credits etc? Are you aware of any web-site official or unofficial in IISc that lists the requirements for a PhD? Your help is much appreciated!

ram

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Ram,

The student handbook given to students when they join IISc has all the information. Many students do not read this !

If you do not have a copy and want one, go to the academic section and ask for a copy. Of course, you can ask me or some other faculty who will also tell you the requirements.

thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

CAn someone tell me whether WITS is a good university? http://www.wits.ac.za/

Anonymous said...

I have applied for IIT-H and IISc. If I am offered at both places which one should I go for..? I am aware that it depends on many factors. I just wanted to explore the opinions from other prospective candidates and experienced faculty. I am an experimentalist. I presume the growth in IIT-H would be better as it is a very young IIT with generous funding to set-up their own lab, less bureaucracy and interference from senior faculty and so on.

Thank you for your inputs!

Anonymous said...

H: google 'wits wiki' for some background information and ranking of this university. Without knowing what field you are in and who you are going to work with, it is difficult to predict if this experience will make your CV attractive to an IIT in the future. If I was in your position, I would probably wait and see what other opportunities are available before committing.

Anonymous said...

I have applied for IIT-H and IISc. If I am offered at both places which one should I go for..?

These decisions are extremely dependent on your individual needs. Of all the IIT's, IIT Kanpur is run the best and it is truly a pleasure to work there if you are a new faculty. If you have a two-body problem, IISc is the least helpful institute to work with, although your spouse can find lots of scope for employment in Bangalore. Same goes for Hyderabad, since lots of local companies exist. Kanpur is very bad as far as finding employment for spouse goes.

In terms of funding, IISc is probably the best, even for an experimentalist. Be aware though that there seems to be some bias against experimentalists in IISc.
It is very subtle, based on feedback I got from friends who are there.

IIT-H is new, so, you may have some growth pains to deal with. Your research may take a few more years to come online compared to IISc or another established IIT.

Bharat

kiranhs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Dr. Madras,
I am a research staff at the University of Iowa and work in the area of orthopaedic biomechanics. In the US, there is a very close collaboration between hospital and the researchers in engineering departments. Many a times it is aided by the fact that the university has both an engineering and a medical school. In India, there has not a whole lot of collaborative work b/w engineers and clinicians especially in orthopaedics. Has the situation changed? specifically with regards to clinically relevant research. I am thinking of coming back to India and research work that I would like to accomplish would heavily depend on the collaborative work i would carry out with the clinicians/surgeons.

PKumar said...

I have applied for IIT-H and IISc. If I am offered at both places which one should I go for..?

I am working in one of the new IITs for the past 02 years. you will be involved in so many development activities of the new IIT.it is really challenging but at the end you will have satisfaction for the contributions you have made apart from teaching and research. yes, for experimental research, it may take some time to establish your research lab, but there is no shortage of fund to do so. You have lot of freedom to do put your ideas to make a new IIT.

Anonymous said...

May be a bit off-topic but has anybody heard from IIT-R about Assistant Prof. interviews? Applications were submitted in June this year.

SS

Anonymous said...

SS,
IITR Dept. of Electronics & Computer Engg. interview on 15-16th Nov.

Anonymous said...

Thanks.

SS

Anonymous said...

Its good to know that IIT-R and IIT-G (also IIT-P) are interpreting the essential qualifications for associate professors in the correct way. I also suffered because of this. After comparing the faculty profile of associate professors in an old IIT with mine, I applied there. I was denied even the interview letter citing post PhD 6 year experience as mandatory requirement. I was having post PhD 4 years and 10 years overall teaching experience and a publication profile that was doubly as good as the best associate professor there both in terms of quality and quantity.

What I feel the authorities in IITs/IISc follow double standards. They have some norm for their internal candidates and entirely different set of higher norms for candidates applying from outside the IIT system.

DSen said...

"What I feel the authorities in IITs/IISc follow double standards. They have some norm for their internal candidates and entirely different set of higher norms for candidates applying from outside the IIT system."
This is where RTI is so important. You better ask the concerned RTI, how they are ignoring your pre-PhD experience. For associate prof., the requirement is 6 years exper. out of these 3 years should be at the level of assistant.. how IITs can misinterpret MHRD notification dtd. 19.008.09 ???

iitmsriram said...

anon @11 am writes "What I feel the authorities in IITs/IISc follow double standards. They have some norm for their internal candidates and entirely different set of higher norms for candidates applying from outside the IIT system."

This is not possible; as dsen has suggested, you can file a rti request asking for what the shortlisting norms are - it is legally untenable to have different norms for different applicants; however, the norms can be different (higher) compared to MHRD circulars, as long as the same norms are applied to all applicants. This (setting of higher norms) or the proceedings of the selection committee usually cannot be challenged in court unless there is reason to believe that there is non-equality.

Anonymous said...

Prof. giri,

Can you get yourself reimbursed for the expenses incurred (doctor's fees and medicine) while seeing a local doctor (like gurukripa clinic). I visited one doctor in gurukripa clinic for my son without seeing our health center first. So there is no referral. Is it allowed to get reimbursed in this case.

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