Saturday, January 1, 2011

(old) Pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc

This is a pinned post (i.e., this post will always appear at the top of this blog though newer posts appear below it) for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc. Please post all your questions and comments here and please read this site and the old post before you post your queries.

This has crossed 200 comments and a new pinned post has been created. 

266 comments:

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Anonymous said...

anon @11 am writes "What I feel the authorities in IITs/IISc follow double standards. They have some norm for their internal candidates and entirely different set of higher norms for candidates applying from outside the IIT system."

Inbreeding is common in the vast majority of Universities around the world, not just the IITs/IISc.

Anonymous said...

Dear SP,

When you apply at 32, they ask you to do a postdoc for 3 years. When you finish it, they'll say - sorry, you're above 35. Not a joke, this has happened actually.

It seems IISc and some IITs are spoilt by the sheer numbers that apply, for a country of 1.2b. They seem to think they are So Great just because X candidates apply to a certain post. Naturally it is elimination mechanism at work. The other day I was speaking to an IIT prof - he said these days they won't look at you unless you had 2 years postdoc. The gentleman doesn't get it - why would anyone do a 2 year postdoc in engineering? just for working at that IIT? Come on, come to your senses.

ks

Anonymous said...

Dear iitmsriram,
Definately there are double standards. I also have the similar experience. When I enquired from the Head of the Department of an old IIT regarding the post of associate professor he told me the necessity of IEEE transaction papers for selection. Ironically, he himself does not have IEEE transaction papers. Neither some of the associate professors there. How can you explain this without thinking about double standards?

Anonymous said...

I did master's from IISc. After one year of job, I realized industrial job is not my cup of tea. It's the academics which suited me best. I am aspirant for faculty position in IITs. So, I am planning to do PhD from abroad.

But after reading all the comments, I am slightly discouraged. It seems only research and talent is not enough for faculty job in IITs. God father is more important than research. Now I am slightly confused, is it be worthwhile to do PhD? I am feeling little bit down. One thing is sure I want to come back in India. I want to make a difference here. I am finding difficult to make a decision.

NB

Anonymous said...

Dear NB,

God Father is not important in getting to IIT/IISC as per my own experience.
I did my PhD from abroad and was a faculty in a US University when I applied to the IITs and IISC. I did not know anyone let alone having a godfather in these institutes. My application was processed without any hassle and I got several job offers from the IIXs. It was very smooth.
So please do not go by rumors and conjectures. I think if your career is good, you can get to the IIXs quite easily.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

To Annon at Nov.19, 2.17 PM!
I can surely say how you got job offers in India without having godfathers! The Indian academicians/common people think that anything done abroad (especially PhD) is much greater than even the best of Indian PhDs. I have 10 international papers from Indian University PhD with cumulative impact factor of over 60, but I was told that if I had PhD from IISc/IIT, I would have been treated differently and ended up selected.
SP

iitmsriram said...

Anon @1:41 pm states "Dear iitmsriram, Definately there are double standards ..." The current HoD probably got promoted to Asso Prof 10 or 15 years ago, so is it a big deal if he does not meet the current norm - one would hope that expectations increase over the years. In any case, these norms are only shortlisting norms and the selection / interview committee is the one making the decisions after the shortlisting. Anyone (and everyone) meeting the shortlisting norms has to be called for interview. There may be some who are called even if they dont meet the norms (and this is permissible as per IIT statutes.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting to see how high irrationality seems to run amongst those are not selected?

Anonymous said...

Dear iitmsriram,
Not only the HOD but many current associate professors does'nt have IEEE transaction papers and still they require transaction paper from me.
My point is that IITs/IISc are biased in favor of candidates having PhDs from IITs/IISc or abroad. The quality of publications is secondary.

iitmsriram said...

anon@8:24 am reminds me of an old 'net' posting which can be found at http://www.utdallas.edu/~m.vidyasagar/scit.html. A relevant quote - "This makes it very easy for them to explain their failures on all sorts of external factors rather than on their own poor performance. The explanation can range from the philosophical ("It was not meant to be.") to the conspiratorial ("I heard that the guy who got the promotion is the third nephew of the Director's fourth cousin!"), but certainly never practical ("I guess I have to work harder next year.") Rings very true even today.

Anonymous said...

@ "... but I was told that if I had PhD from IISc/IIT, I would have been treated differently and ended up selected."

There is something called a pedigree and that is something that helps or does not depending on one's situation. All things being equal (assumption), I would not be surprised that the selection committee would choose someone from IIX or from a foreign university.

Selections are subjective even if there is no nepotism/ corruption involved. Without knowing your case it would be hard to assume one or the other. I hope you would find or already found a good position.

Ankur Kulkarni said...

I am the November 20, 2010 8:24 AM - I couldn't post from my id for some reason.

Thanks iitmsriram for Prof Sagar's quote - there are many such gems in his writing.

A request to some of the rest: This forum was meant to provide specific and general help to prospective IIT faculty. But it seems like some people are treating this forum as a place predominantly for the grievances of those who are no more in the running. Prof Giri does not moderate the comments here, so please exercise your own discretion and stick to the topic.

Anonymous said...

Today is the interviews for IIT Jodhpur..ME dept. This is second round. In first round last month, they had presentations. Based on it, they short-listed 4-5 people only, it seems.

And IIT Ropar also called ME candidates in december first week..

Anonymous said...

CAN IIT FACULTY GRAB SALARY FROM THEIR OWN GRANTS

Anonymous said...

IF I want to give interview on phone or skype, from USA, will they take it seriously , or better not to give by web

Anonymous said...

To anon@4:51 AM

I have given all my interviews over skype and I got most of the job offers.

Anonymous said...

To Anon November 24, 2010 4:51 AM,

Please check some older posts. Prof. Madras and others have commented that if you do not appear in person for an interview you may be offered a contract position.

M.

Anonymous said...

I am a new faculty member at IISc. I interviewed at IISc last year and although I wanted to use skype etc. to make my presentation using the internet, in retrospect, I would advise against it because:
1) You get to make a better case for yourself if you are present in person.
2) You get to meet a lot of people and get "off the cuff" feedback from them which might help your decision in case you get an offer.

In my own case, I was more clearly aware of the benefits of working at IISc and the limitations after I made the trip and interviewed in person.

Anonymous said...

Prof. Giridhar and others,

I am sorry if this question has been asked before.

Somewhere on the internet, I saw this for new faculty at IIX:

"A candidate with Ph.D. qualification and 5 years’ of post Ph.D. experience/Ph.D with a total of 10 years’ teaching/research/industrial experience could be directly appointed to the position of Assistant Professor in PB-4 (Rs 37400-67000) with AGP of Rs 9000"

Was this only a part of the Mehta committee recommendations, or was this approved? If approved, what if I joined with 4 years post-PhD experience? Will I be moved to PB-4 when I finish one more year at IISc? Or, do I have to wait for 3 years? Also, what is the basic+AGP that one gets when they are moved to PB-4 as Asst. Prof?
Is it the lowest number in the range?

Does anyone have any updates on the performance related incentive scheme (PRIS) for IIX?

Ram

Ankur Kulkarni said...

Ram,

Please refer to the institute's website for the accurate wording of the policies followed by the particular institute. In your quote, the pay band and experience requirements are both incorrect.

For IITB, e.g., see: http://www.iitb.ac.in/recruit/Infosheet.pdf

iitmsriram said...

Ram,

As Ankur has suggested, the actual implementation is different. The text you have put up is from the Goverdhan Mehta committee report. The actual implementation circulars state as follows:

For appointment as Assistant Professor, one should have a Ph.D ... a very good academic record throughout and at least three years' industrial / research / teaching experience, excluding however, the experience gained while pursuing Ph.D. ... to be appointed in PB-3 with AGP of Rs. 8000 ... minimum pay in the Pay Band to be fixed at Rs.30000 (giving a minimum basic of 38000).

Assistant Professors (in IIX) on completion of 3 years of service ... shall move PB 4 (37400 - 67000) with an Academic
Grade Pay (AGP) of Rs 9000 and will, however continue to be
designated as Assistant Professor.

What is not clear is what constitutes 'service' for this purpose - whether it has to be as Assistant Professor at IIX or other prior pre- or post-PhD experience can be counted. The uncertainty is not a terrible limitation as with "a minimum of six years Teaching / Industry / Research experience, of which at least three years' should be at the level of Assistant Professors, Senior Scientific Officer / Senior Design Engineer", one will meet the basic eligibility condition for Associate Professor. Since only 3 out of 6 years experience is at a prescribed level, the other 3 could be any relevant pre- or post- PhD experience (it appears that some IIX's may not be interpreting it this way).

Anonymous said...

Prof. Sriram,

Thanks for responding. Do you know what happened to the performance based incentive scheme for IIX professors?

Ram

DrATiwari said...

Prof iitmsriram:
"Since only 3 out of 6 years experience is at a prescribed level, the other 3 could be any relevant pre- or post- PhD experience (it appears that some IIX's may not be interpreting it this way)."
Sir, as you pointed it correctly most of the IIXs are not interpreting this way. I have 6 years of pre-PhD experience and have 02 years of post-PhD experience. I am a faculty in one of the IIXs and the competent authority says that one should have 06 years of post-PhD experience.
I feel this is the right place to highlight this. if even in IIXs, authorities are not ready to listen, what else one can do ?
May be some IIX directors can take note of this, and make the rule/norms clear, so that faculties who have relevant pre-PhD experience will be encouraged to join academics, rather than going to industry, or NITs where there is no such vague rule for Associate.
Thanks

Anonymous said...

Dear iitmsriram,
What is the difference in teaching experience earned before PhD and after PhD. Can anybody claims to be a better teacher because he/she has PhD. If yes then pre PhD teaching experience should not be counted.
Despite clarity of rules from MHRD, some IITs are showing their whimsical attitude and denying promotion/ appointment to deserving candidates who has finished three years as Asstt. Professor or equivalent and have more than six years of total teaching experience.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if Assistant Professors at IISc are considered "Gazetted officers"? Someone wanted me to certify an official document as a "Gazetted Officer" and I need to find out if I can.

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Can IIT Faculty get money from their own grants, like USA, other than their salary.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Can IIT Faculty get money from their own grants, like USA, other than their salary.


Depends on the grant. Nothing is permitted to be taken if the funding agency is a govt of india organization (such as ISRO, DRDO). These make up a large percentage of IIT/IISc funding (almost 100% in some departments). If the grant is from private sources, you can pay yourself. But, don't count on many of these, even in a place like Mumbai or Bengaluru.

Private sources also give consultancy. There is very little of it available and IISc will take 40% of the consultancy amount. 30% of the remaining 60% will be income tax depending on your tax bracket, so about 58% of the consultancy money you get will be taken by the government so that people like Kalmadi and Mayawati can blow it, or A Raja can just write himself a cheque.

Don't count on any additional income for at least 5 years after you join as Asst. Professor. Your salary will be enough to support your family, and the benefits are just breathtaking. No, literally, breathtaking. I once visited the mosquito infested IISc health centre and almost came down with Dengue. So, you know what I mean.

In general, the expectation in IISc is that as a faculty, you will grow a beard, live in filth, not complain too much and decline monetary offers even if you need it to treat your last stage cancer. How else will you sacrifice for the country?

good luck..

Anonymous said...

So, I guess people who apply to IIT and IISc for faculty are losers.

If so, why there are so many losers?

Anonymous said...

Statistically, 90% of the people in the world are losers. Do you think all apply to IITs? There are other demeaning ways of working for a government full of corrupt people. You could, for example, be a customs officer asking for a handout at the airport or a medical officer asking for a cut before a near and dear ones deadbody can be released.

Being an IIT professor usually means that you are a loser AND you have a conscience. When the conscience becomes to strong about working for those losers in Delhi, you can try the private sector and not be a loser any more.

Anonymous said...

Hi all,
I have a question for someone who is experienced with the recruitment is IIX's.

After finishing my Ph.D, I was a post-doc for 3 years and then joined a very large aerospace company as an Analysis engineer, which requires about 10 years of experience as an engineer. I am 30 now and planning to work for the company for 4-5 years or so. My Ph.D is in Mechanical Engineering and I have published 13 papers in international journals and continue to do so in collaboration with my previous colleagues.

My question is, if I want to apply for a faculty position in any of the IIX's in India after 4-5 years, can I apply directly for an Associate Prof. position?

I understand that there are tons of such queries in this forum and it can sometimes be irritating to some people. But if anyone, who has experience in this matter can reply, I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you very much in advance.

-BL

iitmsriram said...

Dear BL,

Yes, you can apply for asso prof position - the eligibility is 6 years of experience with 3 years of it at the level of assistant professor etc. So, you will have to convince the institution that your present job is of equivalent rank. But being eligible does not mean much - you need to check out what your real chances are. I see one potential problem - most IIX have a (internal) requirement of having guided a PhD - not just de facto, but has to be de jure, meaning, the degree giving university has to have you listed as guide. You may not be able to show this, but that is not the end - there is usually an exception clause by which x papers can substitute for this. You really need to contact the HoD or some other prof in the department(s) you are interested in and run your resume by them and see how it stacks up against their current asso prof norms and expectations. Some departments will be willing to take in industry candidates at the asso level while some departments will not be - you need to specifically ask about this also. Good luck.

Indraneel Sanyal said...

To All,
Sir, I want to do MTech/Phd from IIT. I have given GATE in 2010 and got a rank 61 in ECE. but I did not take any admission for the 2010-11 session because of my financial condition. I khow that I would get a stipend of Rs.8000/month but that was not sufficient for me to support my large family as I am the only earnimg member.I am also married and doing a job in a private compamy to support my family. I came to know that MHRD has recently increased the Stipend for MTech and Phd student.Sir, can anybody tell me the amount and when all the IITs are going to implement that? If it is so then only I can fulfill my dream to do a higher study from an IIT. otherwise it will remain a drean for me inspite of a good GATE rank.Please sir if you know then please answer.
Indraneel

Anonymous said...

Hi Indraneel,
I can understand your situation. One possibility is to join as a project assistant in any of the IIT or IISC and register for MS simultaneously. Some projects are well funded and you may get a good amount of money. Once you join as a project assistant you can register for MS by research in many IITs.
Regarding PhD you can do it while you are working. After your master's you can join an R&D and do your PhD while working there. Also look into part time Mtech courses in IITs.
CP

Anonymous said...

Thanks to all for all your expert comments, that will be very helpful to upcoming faculty. But I have a question that is it worthy for one who is a junior faculty in USA ( high rank University) to move IIT as an Assistant Prof? Money wise will it be OK to live a life Like USA?

Anonymous said...

Dear iitmsriram,
Thank you very much for the information on Associate Professor positions. As you suggested I will contact the HoD of the department I am interested in and hope that I get a positive response.

-BL

Anonymous said...

> But I have a question that is it worthy for one who >is a junior faculty in USA ( high rank University) to >move IIT as an Assistant Prof?

If I was a junior faculty member at a top ranked research intensive University in the US, I would seriously consider such a move for any of the following reasons:

(1) Family commitments/home sickness

(2) The faculty position I currently hold is not tenure-track

(3) I feel like most of my colleagues dislike me and are secretly conspiring to deny me tenure come judgement day. In addition, it doesn't look like any decent University down the ladder are dying to welcome me aboard.

> Money wise will it be OK to live a life Like USA?

Even if I had all the money in the world, I wouldn't dare to live a life Like USA in an IIT campus. I would stick out like a sore thumb and become the laughing stock of the campus.

Anonymous said...

Although this link is nothing to do with faculty position at IITs/IISc. These are views of Mr. Ratan Tata about IISc. Just want to share.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Youre-not-doing-enough-Tata-to-IISc/articleshow/7109448.cms

NB

Anonymous said...

Prof. Giridhar and others,

Do you know what is the compensation in a private engineering college like DAIICT or LNMIIT for an Assistant Professor?
I have offers from two IITs (1 established, 1 new) but the
salaries are too low compared to what I will get in a company in BLR/HYD. But, I like teaching/research from an academic setting.

A friend told me that I should start the conversation with a private college before I sign up for an IIT, if I am concerned about compensation. Any feedback on salaries there would be much appreciated.

regards
Hari

Anonymous said...

I would like to learn more about working on private universities in Bangalore, as well. However, I am more interested to hear about anybody's experience with their selection process and research environment. Also, would anybody comment on good places for science-engineering?

Thank you.

MR

Anonymous said...

Is that true that easiest way to get selected in a new IITs is to have degree from its respective mentor institute? This seems to be true by at least seeing the faculty profile in any new IITs

k said...

I recently appeared for an interview in one of the newly established science education and research institutes. Later I realized that the results are out and offers made. They did not (as promised!) inform the rejected applicants. I had to inquire to know the results. Since they have not published the list of successful candidates I can not compare my merit with the successful ones. However, I would like to know what went wrong with my application. Is there anyone who knows if the selection committee makes a report for each candidate and makes a quantitative estimation of credentials of each candidate before arriving at the final list? Moreover, should such a report be made, will it be provided to the candidate upon request? What surprised me is that one successful candidate has already joined the institute and (s)he has half the number of my publications in journals of comparable reputation.

Anonymous said...

did anybody get interview call from IITGn

Anonymous said...

Any comments on navaratna universities and their impact..? Comments from experienced faculty in IIT and IISc will be highly appreciated. Please see the link
below...
http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-india-to-soon-have-navratna-universities/20110103.htm

regards
KK

Anonymous said...

Hello all,
I want to discuss a topic that has come-up many times lately. (I am not sure if this was discussed before. If so, please can anyone direct me to the discussion.)

The issue is the age limit of 35 years for AP positions. I know that it is not a mandatory age but "preferable". Anyone who has experience in this aspect, either as a candidate or on a selection committee please post your opinions.

I personally believe that such age limits, if employers stick to them, can do more harm than good. I think if the person is qualified from an academic point of view, such as research, teaching, character and administration, then s/he should be admitted.

Thanks for your participation.

-K

Ramesh said...

Prof Giri,

Thanks for creating and contributing in such an informative blog.

I am an Indian born and educated, naturalized foreign citizenship and would like to apply for faculty position in IIX. I have heard about contractual positions rather than permanent position being offered to selected foreign citizens.

It would be very helpful if you and others could suggest how different these contracts would be from the regular contracts (handed to applicants with different experience, thesis status etc). For example in terms of conversion to permanent employment in due time, salary, pension and other benefits.

Thanks,

iitmsriram said...

Ramesh,

You have an alternate - get yourself an OCI card and you will be eligible for regular (permanent) positions with exact same status as Indian citizens.

Anonymous said...

Prof Sriram,

Thanks for your information. There are so many versions, it gets a bit confusing.

Regards,

Ramesh

Anonymous said...

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/25jan2011/145.pdf

Nice article by prof. Balram. I completely agree with the statement made by him "Ph D students are the lifeblood of academic research. Ensuring their future must be a central concern of science
policy discussions, which cannot ignore uncomfortable
questions". Students future must be one of the top priorities in policy making. Otherwise it will be tough to change present scenario of research in India

Regards,
NB

Anonymous said...

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/25jan2011/145.pdf

Nice article by prof. Balram. I completely agree with the statement made by him "Ph D students are the lifeblood of academic research. Ensuring their future must be a central concern of science
policy discussions, which cannot ignore uncomfortable
questions".

Anonymous said...

Sir, I have a question. Is there any upper limit for the post of Assistant professors in the IITs? I have read that they should preferably be blow 35 yrs age... what does that mean exactly? Can anyone join IIT as an Asst.Prof after 35 yrs ?

Anonymous said...

A word of advice for the prospective applicants: When you come for your interview/job talk, try to visit the transit accommodation provided to the newly-joined faculty members. The conditions of the temporary accommodation may be different from the "actual" faculty accommodation (for the latter there is usually a long queue according to seniority in the old IITs). It is good to have a realistic idea of the conditions in which you (possibly with your family) are going to live initially (from a few months up to a few years). Living outside the campus is probably not a good option in many metros, but this way you will at least know what you can expect.

-XYZ

Anonymous said...

I have been shortlisted for interview for one of the newer IIT. I have some difficulties in attending the interview in person. Is it advisable to give it through Skype? I talked to the HOD and he informed me that they may offer only visiting appointment if interviewed through Skype. He also said that I may be considered for regular position only in the next interview. Is there any fixed rule that they can only offer visiting appointment if interviewed in Skype. If so, with all the technological developments why such a rule? I am little concerned to leave a good job abroad and move back only with the visiting appointment. What are the factors should I consider if have to accept a visiting appointment. Any suggestions are welcome. Response from experienced people is highly appreciated.

Best
KK

Gautam said...

Can pre-phd teaching/ industrial experience be counted for a faculty position at IIT? Please clarify. Thanks in advance

iitmsriram said...

KK writes "I am little concerned to leave a good job abroad and move back only with the visiting appointment"; There is no fixed rule about offering a visiting appointment, you may be able to convince the committee to offer you a contract position, maybe. But, realistically, if you are serious about joining an IIX, old or new, you should write to the HoD and visit the campus, chat up prospective colleagues etc etc. There are several posts on this issue right here. It is not only for the department to see you, YOU will get to see the department, people etc; it is a major life decision for you, no? It is also much better to make the visit on your own (so you will get more time) rather than do it at the time of the interview when folks in the department may be busy with the very same interviews. Most HoDs will be receptive to such visits and make any local arrangements (guest house accommodation etc) as needed.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your reply Prof. Sriram...

Best
KK

Anonymous said...

Hi,

I have posted this question yesterday, i.e. 8th NOv 2011, which has been deleted. Could you please tell me why IISC is making weird rules so that they do not have to give HRA to students that MHRD approved, where as other MHRD institutes have approved the student HRA?

Your honesy reply will be highly appreciated.

With Best reagards

Anonymous said...

Are married PhD students, who are staying outside IISc campus with their family, entitled to get HRA in case IISc is not able to provide accommodation to the family of the student?

-a PhD student

iitmsriram said...

Dear anon@7:34 pm, what is the reasoning given by IISc? The MHRD notification states that "all research fellows may be provided hostel accommodation". In the case of married students who are looking for family accommodation, the notification is silent. So, if the institution offers hostel accommodation to a married student who then decides not to avail this but wants to stay with family off campus, it appears the institution can refuse to give HRA (that should answer anon@8:29 pm). Is this what is happening? It is not a nice thing to do, but it does not violate anything in the MHRD notification.

Anonymous said...

This is not related to IIX but those who are interested in applying for faculty positions in India may be interested in job opportunities in the CS dept. in the newly opened SouthAsian University in Delhi.
http://www.southasianuniversity.org/recruitments/faculty_positions.html

SS

Anonymous said...

Even though this is not about IIX, I thought candidates who are looking for faculty positions in Bio or CS-related areas in India, may be interested in the newly formed South Asian University in Delhi. This international university was created by an act of parliament and was created to cater mainly to students from the south asian region. It has attractive salaries and perks and the salaries of faculty members are free of Indian Income tax. Those interested may google southasianuniversity and get more information directly from their website.

SS

Anonymous said...

It seems IISERs are attracting better faculties (in basic science of course) than the new IITs. Can anybody comment on that? Is the research facility in IISER better than new IITs?

Anonymous said...

Is the research facility in IISER better than new IITs?

aye aye sir!

Anonymous said...

Prof. Madras, recently i have heard that if some one has done phd from IISc, some departments of IISc (ex:- CSA) are considering them inferior or not allowing for the post of faculty. They are going to consider candidates from abroad only and not from iisc itself ? is it true ? Waiting for your reply.

Anonymous said...

Blogger and readers are silnet these days! Looks like prospective faculty reached a saturation point about questions/doubts!

Anonymous said...

I think the blog has finished serving its purpose. better to close it down now.

Dr.MKS said...

I am in old pension scheme in a central university. Recently, I received appointment letter from a new IIT for Associate Professor. I came to know that I will be in new pension scheme as new IITs do not have old pension scheme. Today, somebody told me that government is considering putting all those faculty members of new IITs in old pension scheme who were in old pension scheme before joining a new IIT.

Can somebody provide more detail about such a proposal.

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