Wednesday, November 30, 2016

Pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc

This is a pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc. Please, please read this site and the old posts, herehere, herehere,  here and here, here also. There are over 5000 comments and replies to these comments in these posts. 

3,339 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Thanks for the information about IIT Gn

Anonymous said...

Hi,

I am have been waiting for the results of INSPIRE faculty award, 2015 and my application still says "in progress". I am getting "RejectbyCM" in the URL address, whenever I check the status, which means that my application hasn't passed the first round. But, I saw in this forum somebody got an interview call for INSPIRE faculty, could he/she tell whether he/she is also getting the same "RejectbyCM" status for his/her application???

Anonymous said...

Hi,

I am also waiting for the Inspire faculty 2015 results after interview. My online application status also says "in progress" and I too see "RejectbyCM" in the URL address.

Anonymous said...

Recently NAL has advertised for recruitment -
http://www.nal.res.in/pdf/Draft-Advt-No-3-2015.pdf

I presume that faculty from IISc/IITs are involved in the selection I post my question here.

Some posts for particular areas are marked as reserved.
Reservation across grades/scales can be understood (hopefully!).
But across competency/knowledge?

Eg:
POST CODE: MAV-216(1 Post)(Reserved for SC)
Candidate must be responsible for a fixed wing mini UAV and
MAV airframe design. He/she should be responsible for generating aerodynamic
characterisation using design tools like XFLR, AVL & CFD and validating this with the
experimental methods. Candidate will also be supervising the model prototyping
and RPT facility. The candidate must have sound knowledge of Aircraft design, stability
and control and Fluid Dynamics.

I mean how can a a post requiring certain competence be reserved for SC/ST/OBC/PH.
SC should do aerodynamics and OBC should do combustion but not any other category!

@Prof. Sriram can you please help me understand the logic (expecting there is one)?

iitmsriram said...

@anon wondering about reservation with specialisation: well, it can happen. As an example, every 7th post as per reservation roster will be for SC (this is a simplification; there are more conditions to be applied, let us leave that). Let us say there are 10 posts to be filled. One could pool the vacancies and advertise as 10 different specialisations and note that 1 post is reserved for SC (this is sort of what you are looking for). In this case, the selection committee or multiple selection committees have to somehow coordinate and decide which SC candidate should be selected against which specialisation. The other way is for the recruitment wing to list the posts in the order in which the user department is seeking recruitments, so the 7th incoming request will be placed against the SC candidate, whatever the specialisation turns out to be - this is what NAL appears to be doing.

Anonymous said...

It happens only in India :)

Anonymous said...

Prof. Sriram and Prof. Madras,

It will also be interesting to see how many SC professors actually exist in IITM and IISc. Last time it was published that in the last 60 yrs only one full Prof was SC in Central universities. Before people start abusing getting these numbers will open everyone's eyes. I know a faculty in IIT(Old) who is afraid of declaring that he is SC because that will hamper his growth and future prospects! Is this really happening or just like all SCs/STs he is just making up a story. He did not claim reservations though. Does it amount to falsifying data if SC/ST declare themselves general!

iitmsriram said...

Why single out IITM and IISc, I would bet numbers would be similar in all IITs. In any case, numbers may not mean much as reservation for faculty posts at IITs has been there since 2008 only. Here also, the actual position is not clear as the reservation circular was challenged by AIIMS faculty association and the supreme court has struck down the circular without even going into much detail (treating it as a matter already ruled upon), stating "We impress upon the Central and State Governments to take appropriate steps in accordance with the views expressed in Indra Sawhney's case". There is no compulsion for anyone to declare their community unless they want to avail some benefits associated with such a status, so it is not clear where falsification of data comes up.

Anonymous said...

@Prof. Sriram thanks for explaining the logic.
So it turns out that the expertise available for particular aircraft system
depends on the random order of its listing!

Anonymous said...

Prof. Sriram,

The reason only IISc/IITM were asked about because two Professors from these institutes are available in this forum. Other institutes we can just speculate. I was expecting a straight forward answer like 20% or 10% but your explanation looked like we are trying to hide behind rule books and rulings.

Your clarification of not declaring caste not amounting to falsifying data will be helpful for three people I know of.

Just to clarify, sir, some people would like to keep their lower caste tag intact (even in Europe/Canada/Australia/US/Japan/NZ) when they are doing good so that they can inspire others (not always to claim benefits). Any under performing person will not dare to apply to the prestigious top in South Asian institutes.

So will it be fair to conclude that the worrisome condition of Indian science after independence is a responsibility of those sitting in politics/ bureaucracy and faculty at prestigious institutes. As there were no reservations before 2008 so reserved lower caste people did not get an opportunity to spoil the quality of these institutes.

I do not support reservations but after listening to a conversation of few unreserved PhD students (JNU, IISc, IITB, ICGEB, RRI, JADAVPUR, IITD) sitting in a western country, I felt there should be some truth in what these students are saying about reserved category. Bottom line of their conversation was SC/ST are worst than animals and should not be allowed any seats!!

I apologize for diverting the topic about faculty here but hope this conversation will clarify that it is a common responsibility of all of us as faculty to stop discrimination and support everyone irrespective of religion, color of skin (light vs dark), language (Bengali vs Tamil or Hindi vs Marathi), region (Bengal/ South vs others), and caste.

Anonymous said...

To the anon at July 20, 2015 at 7:58 PM.

You're right in stating that the topic is being diverted by talking about reservation while the discussion here is supposed to be about faculty application process.

It is a well known fact that caste based discrimination exists in India (heck, that's why there is a policy of reservations). It is also a well known fact that most people at IIX are well-intentioned and do not discriminate on this basis. Yes, all these problems of corruption, casteism, regionalism exist in a lot of central and state universities; but in my experience IIX are by and large free from them.

Hope we can move on to the actual topic of faculty applications now.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for reposting-
Can anyone comment is the age limit of 35 years for Assistant Professor at IIT applicable to people already in service at NIT/IIT or other centrally funded technical institutes (like IISER, IIITDM etc)?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof.Sriram,

When are the IITM faculty recruitment results for 2015 expected? Will the candidates be intimated even if they are not selected? Is the BOG meeting over?

Thanks,
SK

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof.Sriram,

When are the IITM faculty recruitment results for 2015 expected? Will the candidates be intimated even if they are not selected? Is the BOG meeting over?

Thanks,
SK

iitmsriram said...

IITM BoG is meeting on 24th July; successful faculty candidates can expect email offers over the weekend. As of now, there is no plan to notify unsuccessful applicants.

Anonymous said...

I am in the process of applying to a few departments at the IITs, and have a couple of questions for all the posters here.

People here have previously suggested that it is wise to get in touch with HODs before applying formally... Is that the best way of going about things or should I just fill out the formal application on the website?
And then if I want to apply to different departments since my area of research overlaps with them, is it OK for me to get in touch with different HODs without referring to the other?

I would appreciate any responses. And many thanks to Prof. Madras and all the other posters for making this such a wonderful discussion forum.

Thanks,
AP

Anonymous said...

Anon@July 12, 2015 at 9:55 PM who advised on the recruitment process at IIT Gandhinagar can you elaborate a bit?
Are the selection committees not held regularly at IIT Gn?
Also why is the internal process not fair? In terms of shortlisting or pay scales?
Thanks
-faculty aspirant

Anonymous said...

I appeared for DST Inspire faculty selection interview in May this year and am waiting for the results. Does anyone know when the final decisions can come out?

Linus said...

@ Anon.
DST-INSPIRE faculty selection results: hopefully by July end.

Anonymous said...

I had a decent and somewhat satisfactory interview in the DST Inspire faculty selection process and was a bit hopeful for a favourable outcome. But came to see from the Inspire website that there is Apex committee who make the final selection after short-listing done by the interview board. Can anyone shed light on how the Apex committee function, ie what criteria they judge in the candidates after the screening made by interview?

Anonymous said...

@AP-July 23, 2015 at 1:14 AM

There is no good answer to your 1st qn, do both, or first visit them and then apply. W.r.t 2nd qn, IIT is a small world, information spreads quickly! Better to be transparent with both depts.

good luck

Anonymous said...

Anon at July 23, 2015 at 1:14 AM.

Getting in touch with HOD won't matter much. However, it will make a great deal of difference if you can personally visit the IIT, talk to various people and give a seminar. This can be done either before applying or shortly after applying. This will help you in deciding whether or not would you want to join the department and also if you leave a good impression, the department gives a positive recommendation at the time of selection committee meeting.

It's a small community of academia in India, and of course within the same institute it is much more open. It's best to keep both HODs informed that you are applying to two departments in the same IIT.

PS

Anonymous said...

Anon at July 23, 2015 at 12:22 PM asking about IIT Gn.

I didn't post the original response about the recruitment process but I and some of my friends have had similar experiences.
Once you send an application, even before they invite you for seminar they have a shortlisting procedure based on a Skype session. Usually there are 1-2 young APs from your department and the Dean of Faculty Affairs. It happened with a friend that since the dean didn't quite understand his research, his application was terminated right there. The said friend has offers from multiple other IITs.
With another friend, he has been given a visiting position (lesser than AP on contract) and he will be facing selection committee a year or two after he joins the institute.

PS

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your response PS. I didn't think about visiting the IIT departmens for a talk before applying formally but I will try to do that.

I personally like to keep everything transparent by telling HODs where I else am applying to if they ask. however, a few years spent in India have shown me that transparency is treated quite differently depending on the organization, hence the query...

AP

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Sriram
I am aspiring for Assistant Prof position at IIT
with PhD in Engg from Europe and on the wrong side of 35.

Have applied at couple of IITs but short-listing is pending everywhere
(with reasons like no director/shifting of campus etc)
except at IIT Madras where I was unsuccessful.

I want to keep trying but at the same time want to return to India as
I have couple of offers from NITs as well as industry.

What will be wise choice in view of an Assistant Prof position in IIT in near future ?
I heard that if you work in NIT you may not be permitted to apply in IITs?

Will be grateful for your suggestions/comments
Thanks
PS: when is the recruitment for Tirupati and Palghat (mentored by IITM) expected ?

iitmsriram said...

"I heard that if you work in NIT you may not be permitted to apply in IITs?"

I suppose that depends on the NIT; yes, you can be denied permission to apply to IITs, but this is most unlikely. However, be aware that carrying on research at most NITs is a difficult proposition, though this is changing. IITM has hired several people from NITs in the last few years, not an issue.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Prof Sriram.
But this leaves me more confused if there is no possibility of research.

Can you comment when the recruitment for Tirupati and Palghat expected ?

Anonymous said...

@Anon:
Regarding DST-INSPIRE: Next INSA meeting is scheduled on 27-30 July, 2015. Results will be out only after that.

Anonymous said...

For Assistant professor at IITs the requirement is stated as-

At least 3 years teaching / research / industrial experience,excluding however, the experience gained while pursuing Ph.D.
Candidates with less than 3 years experience may be put on Tenure Track for the regular post of Assistant Professor.

Is Pre PhD relevant experience considered?

Thanks in anticipation

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at July 29, 2015 at 3:38 AM asking about pre-PhD experience.

I recently received an offer from IIT Hyderabad and they did consider my pre-PhD experience. Not so sure about other IITs, I guess it varies from place to place. Also, the quality of work you have done before PhD and how relevant that is to academia.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the information. If I might ask was your experience in Government/Private and education/industry?

Anonymous said...

@above: Lecturing in a good quality private university

Anonymous said...

Thanks again!

Anonymous said...

A post from Quora quoted here. My apologies if it offends anyone.

DEATH OF A YOUNG RESEARCHER: THANK YOU IIT JODHPUR

2nd July 2015

Dear Colleagues of IIT Jodhpur:

I thank you being with me when I was ‘discontinued from the services’ at the Indian Institute of Technology Jodhpur for ‘unsatisfactory performance’, and for writing a letter expressing strong support for my reinstation.

The students expressed their opinions, demanded for my reinstation and protested for a long time (for 27 days starting from 30th March 2015). The committee constituted by MHRD headed by Shri D R Mehta visited the institute on 10th April 2015 and provided its recommendations to MHRD. Further, after continued student agitations, the Board of Governors of IIT Jodhpur met students and faculty members on 26th April 2015, and promised that demands of students and faculty members would be considered. I was informed by Prof. Goverdhan Mehta that the final decision on the demand/request for my reinstation would be considered in the ‘next’ BoG meeting. The next BoG meeting happened on 15th June 2015, and I was informed by Prof Goverdhan Mehta that the final decision made by the BoG would be communicated to me by the Director in ‘due time’. Even after two weeks of the BoG meeting, I regret to say after meeting the Director Prof CVR Murty today, I am kept under uncertain situations and not being told what is the decision made.

I thank the system for reminding me how it feels to be tormented and penalized. Today I have become intensely aware of being oppressed. As I juggle with my responsibilities as a son, father, husband and mentor, I feel seriously compromised. I wish none of you have to face this in life.

What is my fault? That I worked hard and conducted research that has been acclaimed worldwide, bringing good name to the Institute and attention to the country? That I taught well, gained respect and good will of the students?

I am stunned by the way system has dealt with a young researcher, teacher and mentor, who performed well on any metric that academia may choose to evaluate on. I am deprived of my honor and dignity. I wish none of you have to face this plight.

When you folks are busy sending kids to school, my kids are still waiting for the clouds to clear. When some of you perhaps got exempted from the money you were asked by the Institute, I am without salary for last three months despite putting in all the efforts with my research scholars. My uneducated parents are wondering why is that I was ‘terminated’ from the job after all the good name that I brought to the Institute. Peers across country have been asking me pinching questions subtly pointing at ethical contexts knowing that my work and teaching efficacy is beyond doubt. I wish none of you have to go through this agony that I am facing today.

While the Government of India and we the people of India portray a glorified future of India, I wonder why would young and bright folks be motivated to contribute to the development of motherland under such circumstances if this is their fate. While at IIT Jodhpur we proclaim to be ‘committed to Technology development of India’, we haven't cultivated the culture of valuing people. I regret that the Institute has specialized in killing aspirations and creating dead people.

What a glorious waste of the idea of an IIT.

Signing off from the hospital,
Ganesh Bagler
---
Ganesh Bagler
Assistant Professor,
IIT Jodhpur, Rajasthan, India.
Office: 3114 (Admin Block); Phone: +91-291-2449064

Anonymous said...

@Anon selected at IITH that’s very strange because IITH website says
"Experience: At least 3 years industrial/research/teaching experience after completing Ph.D"
While at several other IITs they do not mention pre or post PhD.
But in practice it boils down to post PhD as people always want to push you down!

Anonymous said...

IIT Jodhpur looks like a horrible place to be. Both, the previous director PK Kalra and the present director CVR Murthy, have taken the institute to great depths. Most of the sensible faculty have left the institute for better places.
Some details of the current crisis can be seen here
http://www.insightiitb.org/2015/iit-jodhpurs-predicament/

Anonymous said...

IIT-My Street, IIT-Your Street, IIT-Our Street, IIT-Their Street

Kill the golden goose.


Prof TA

Anonymous said...

I asked about the pre PhD experience and now I see the two responses which confuse me...

Can anybody involved with the selection process share his observation?

iitmsriram said...

@multiple anons,

I do not know about recruitment calendar of IIT Palakkad and Tirupati; I don't think anyone knows. As of now, IITM has hired temporary faculty and deputed. Also, some IITM faculty will be travelling to Palakkad and Tirupati to teach. IIT Palakkad and Tirupati will have to be created as legal entities before they can start hiring and this has not yet happened. I am sure one of the first things they do will be hiring new faculty.

Pre-PhD experience can be given credit by the selection committee while fixing the pay. Of course, the selection committee will have to determine that the experience is relevant. However, pre-PhD experience credit can be difficult to determine if one is enrolled in PhD during that time.

Anonymous said...

Thanks iitmsriram for elaborating on pre phd experience.
When you say "fixing the pay" does it mean increments or grade pay (6000/7000/8000)?
Regards

Anonymous said...

In my limited experience. Old IITs or other research institutes like TIFR occasionally ignore pre-PhD experience, however some of them consider it to ask questions in interview. More than once candidates were denied Pre-PhD experience (4 years in DRDO as Scientist B and C) to be added to their total experience. Newer IITs including IIT Guwahati (few years ago) did consider Pre-PhD experience. Very rarely it was added to calculate your grade (6000/7000/8000). It is a hard bargain and also depends on the director on case to case basis. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

Ganesh,

Not aware of the whole story but it is a sad and a 'sorry' situation.

After reading about your situation and news articles on our media, it seems IIT Jodhpur require some intervention from the mentor IIT and Govt. of India. If a director is changed all other directors were up against the govt. In this case none of them is speaking out! We wish this situation is sorted out at the earliest. The ultimate sufferers are Indian science and Indian students. You can easily get a job elsewhere due to your excellent credentials but students cannot get excellent faculty at such institutes.

Several excellent scientists have returned to the west after a short stint in Indian institutes (from the top ranked in research, top ranked in South Asia (Indian media), most of the new Institutes and occasionally old institutes). A very few of them come out with their side of the stories and congratulations to you for telling everyone what is going on. This is a new and aspiring faculty thread and your post will help 100 others to decide whether to apply to IIT Jodhpur or not.

Good luck

iitmsriram said...

@anon, pay fixation means both grade pay and increments. With more than 3 years experience, as grade pay is same, additional experience will reflect as increments. For 9000 grade pay, the requirement is 3 years experience in a certain grade (not just 3 years experience), so additional evaluation will have to be done by the selection committee. In particular, if experience beyond 3 years is as post doc (as per title), it cannot count towards 9000 grade pay but will only reflect as increments.

Since @IndianScientist has brought it up, I have to clarify that my previous comments were in the limited context of assistant professor. For associate professor and professor posts, it gets more complicated and hence I avoided commenting. For assistant professor, as the pay circular from the ministry only talks of excluding the experience gained while pursuing PhD, it is fairly straightforward to argue with audit about including pre-PhD experience. For associate professor and professor, the eligibility requirement is give n as PhD and x years of experience. In general government rules, when a post has eligibility listed in this manner, the requirement is to calculate experience only after the qualifying degree. It may be obvious to all of us here that relevant pre-PhD experience has to be counted, but when audit throws up this objection, there is no counter. We have asked for the ministry to issue a clarification, but until this comes, if audit object to counting pre-PhD experience for associate professor and professor recruits, there may be no recourse.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at July 29, 2015 at 2:04 PM

You mentioned that you recently received an offer from IIT-H. Can you kindly give details about the timeline: when you applied, when you got the interview, when you got the offer letter...

As I am awaiting an interview call from IIT-H, the above information you will provide will be very useful for me.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Prof. Madras and Prof. Sriram for maintaining and responding frequently in this blog. It has been quite helpful to provide many answers during my job search.

I will soon be joining IIT Hyderabad and let me share the process I followed. (To the anon above, I'm not the one who talked about pre-PhD experience earlier)

During my India trip in January this year, I visited several places including IIT Hyderabad and gave seminars. I made applications and sent them out in February to my places of choice. Hyderabad was among my top preferences since I quite liked the faculty in my department there - incidentally they were also looking for a person with my precise research area. My application was promptly acknowledged by the dean. In May, one month before the interview date, I was sent an email about the interview in June. Since I had already visited there once, I requested and was allowed to appear on Skype.
There was a seminar on day one for about 20-25 minutes. The faculty present there asked reasonable questions but no questions were asked by the selection committee members. Day two was the interview with the director, head, and the committee. I was surprised that the committee members remembered the details of my seminars and asked very relevant questions during the interview. It lasted for about half an hour. There were some normal HR questions about when can I join and some details about my background.
I received the formal offer letter in a couple of weeks.

I made first contact in December and had the offer letter in hand in July.

Best wishes
Prashant

Anonymous said...

Dear Prashant,

Thank you very much for stepping in and giving us the complete details of the process. This information is very useful for us.

Congrats on your offer letter !

I wish you the very best and all success in your academic career.

regards,

Anonymous said...

In IIT Hyderabad, faculty search committee members also replies promptly to your all queries regarding the process, seminar and interview dates etc. So it is worth to contact them in case you want to know about the schedule.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous August 4, 2015 at 6:48 PM

Thank you very much for the tip. I will do the same.

Anonymous said...

@ All Inspire faculty award applicants

Finally the results for January 2015 session are out. Login and find out the status of your application, it has been updated.

Anon7 said...

Inspire January 2015 - Results:

What does 'Approved' as status means?

Shilpa said...

Inspire January 2015 - Results:

Does 'In Progress' mean rejected?

Anonymous said...

@Shilpa: I had applied for Inspire Faculty award in 2014 session II. 'In progress' status for my application was there even after final results were announced and I was not even shortlisted for presentation! So, in my opinion, 'In progress' had little meaning except that Insa office staff is lazy in updating results!

Shilpa said...

Yes. This "In Progress" status remains the same from the time I submitted the application. They didn't update it after I got shortlisted. So, I need to wait untill the final list comes.

Anonymous said...

@Shilpa - from Anon August 7, 2015 at 10:20 AM

My application status until last week was "in progress" and today it has been updated as "Approved". I thought they have updated it for all applicants.

Anonymous said...

My application status still showing In progress.. I have not been called for interview.. i have applied by nomination mode..

I send mail to DST-INSPIRE two days ago, who have asked my number and mailing that my application is still under process.. i don't know the fate of my application?

Anon8 said...

Inspire faculty results: don't get too excited about 'approved' status. Keeping in mind the legendary punctuality of Indian govt offices, I won't be surprised if 'Approved' status is in regard to confirmation of 'shortlisted for interview' OR worse, it could mean your application is approved as a valid application (properly filled and signed) and would be considered for shortlisting process for presentation by the selection committee!

Best of luck.

Prashant said...

A question about Inspire applications.
Do people recommend applying through direct mode or the institute mode? Is there any difference in the way applications are treated?
I have an offer from IIT Hyderabad but will join after a few months. In the current cycle, the deadline for direct application is 21st August.

Thanks
Prashant

Anon8 said...

@Prashant: It is better for YOU if you apply through institute mode: you'll definitely be shortlisted for interviews; having a faculty position at IIT put you ahead of the herd (IIT tag inspire a confidence in your abilities of concluding a research project); as lot of people apply for inspire faculty award, being shortlisted for presentation through direct mode is more about stroke of luck than novelty of your proposal-- many 'good' candidates are listed out and many 'ordinary' candidates are called for interviews... but hey, it's all hearsay!

However, for the larger good, you should NOT apply for inspire faculty award. You already have a position at IITH; only benefit that you could get out of Inspire is 3.5 million inr of grant money. Your selection for IIT indicates that you (probably) are decent in writing proposal. For the same effort you put in applying for Inspire award, you could write another project proposal to other grant agencies (DST, DBT, CSIR, NRB, etc.) and get the funds. For the last 4-5 batches, number of Inspire faculty awarded each session is ~100. By applying for DST-inspire award, you are snatching one seat from a guy/girl who might be desperate to secure a faculty position anywhere!

If I were you I won't apply for inspire, but to each his own.

Prashant said...

@Anon8: Thanks for the advice.
Aren't they supposed to shell out about a 1000 INSPIRE fellowships every year? 100 per session seems a low number to reach that target.

I haven't done any academic research in India and am therefore not fully aware of all the funding agencies and all the fellowships/grants available to young faculty. I should look into them in more detail. After reading through the past 2 years of comments on this blog, it seems that Inspire and Ramanujan are the two pretty standard fellowships for which people apply before returning to India.

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone,

If the department at IISc takes my faculty job application to the selection committee, they will let me know right? It has been two months since I submitted my application. Meanwhile, I am wondering if the department made progress in my application, and perhaps planning to target September 2015 council meeting.

I am eagerly awaiting my outcome of my application from a faculty from IISc. The department acknowledged my application. I do not want bother the department head yet as I may seem too eager. I am yet to visit the department as I am living abroad.

Thanks in advance for your inputs !

Anonymous said...

I have got an opportunity to do a teaching presentation for AP at one of the IITs through skype. I think I have to present something from the UG curriculum.

Would be grateful to have some guidance-

Should I choose a topic that is directly related to PhD or even a broadly related topic will work?

Most importantly: An easy fundamental topic or more advanced/exotic topic?



Overall what is expected in India?
Thanks

Anon8 said...

@ Anonymous: About teaching presentation topic--

You could clarify this from IIT office/HoD itself. It would be better to know what they expect you to present!

P.S. Is IIT-Mandi the place?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the advice. But the HODs are difficult to reach.

No its not Mandi. Do they recruit? :)

Ordinary Person said...

My experience with giving teaching seminar at an old IIT. It was a bit of a mixed bag.
I gave both the research and the teaching seminars online in that IIT. I chose a topic that would be suitable for first lecture of a regular 3rd year course in my subject. From what I could make out from Skype, the audience was composed of a bunch of professors and a few PG students during the teaching session. The students, trying to show off smartness, asked some weird deep and philosophical questions about that subject which had nothing to do with the topics I talked about. I too, did not disappoint them, and gave long and deeply philosophical answers. :)
Everyone smiled at the end.

Anonymous said...

Inspire faculty 2015 results out. Login and download your offer letter.

Anonymous said...

@Ordinary Person Thanks!

Did you also give the final interview on skype?

And I assume you got the position...

Ordinary Person said...

@above:
I got a position elsewhere, so didn't continue with this particular IIT.
But I did give Skype interview at the other place.

Anonymous said...

Dear all:

i am going to discuss something after being a faculty in India. Not sure if there is any accountability for the grants or peer reviewing is done at the best.

people who have completed projects without papers have grants continuously being approved. Do the agencies look for any accountability for the money they provide or only networking in India fetches the grant. Although this is exceptional case, but many will be there like this in India. As a taxpayer apart from research faculty, i also worry for this sorry situation.

Anonymous said...

"completed projects without papers"

why always talk about papers? There are no use of papers..do work for society. do not publish.

read this

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6061089355607754501&postID=7588150914244965788&bpli=1&pli=1

Anonymous said...

Is it wise to mention at department presentations at IITs
that I can contribute in so and so way..
say bringing certain technical skill, networking with foreign universities, academic codes etc...
Or do I run risk of being considered as Bragging?
Thanks in advance

Anonymous said...

One should publish their research. If the research is original it must be published in a good society journal, it means that the work is of some merit.

Only people who cannot write publishable papers hide their inability by saying "publications and numbers mean nothing" and blah blah blah...

Anonymous said...

One should publish their research. If the research is original it must be published in a good society journal, it means that the work is of some merit.

Only people who cannot write publishable papers hide their inability by saying "publications and numbers mean nothing" and blah blah blah...

Anonymous said...

Getting funds to do research needs some accountability

1. Either to contribute something to the society with useful inventions in basic or clincial research

2. Publish papers and increase the scientific reputation of the country that one belong

3. Generate atleast quality Ph. D scholars as future manpower of this country from the money

etc.... of course it is tax from common man.

I am not sure what else but getting the grants without any of this listed only for promotion of individuals is completely not acceptable

In developed countries funding is based on what you have given back in previous grants. peer reviewing is tough and my post doc mentor was suffering although he has produced some quality publications in previous grant.

In India is it happening is an open question? Based on my limited experience and exposure, i feel otherwise. I may be wrong as well!

Anonymous said...

Yes, most of the funds goes to contribute something to the society with useful inventions but people like you emphasize and think only publications are important.

Anyone can publish. India does not need people who publish in journals. We need people who can contribute to society.

Anonymous said...

anonymous @1.07 pm I am not sure if you have read comments of anonymous @12.37pm

there are various contributions needed from the grant money received apart from papers.

Please suggest how can anyone be rated based on their useful inventions?

it can be either by patents or publications. Both are followed by future researchers to move forward in the field and develop something that can contribute to the society.

This is my humble view point

Anonymous said...

Everything is not quantifable. Kalam contributed to society..he did not have patents or publications.

People like the blog owner tell that publications and patents are important..good that no one else in India believes in this crap.

Only contributions to the society in terms of inventions and products are useful. Anyone can publish or patent. What use is that ?

Anonymous said...

@ anons above
I think what you are saying is complimentary to each other and not conflicting

There should be some metrics to gauge output (publications, patents, thesis etc.)

Also these metrics should have a real worth. Publishing an article is not just enough if it doesn't translate in real benefits to society/industry.

For real advances getting a metric is not that difficult and unfortunately its also easy other way round too as long as Elsevier and others can make free money!

Unfortunately due to publish or perish culture lot of publications are just work which has no real value.

about Kalam his contribution was not in academics but definitely out of tax payers money!
We should try to excel in the role that we are.
But I once heard that he was refused a chair in IISc!

SM

Anonymous said...

There is no publish or perish culture. No one cares if you publish or not. No one cares if you work or not in government offices like IISc.

Anonymous said...

If one is in academics they are automatically contributing to the society by teaching and generating engineers/scientists for the country. Research is something that is personal to a researcher and he can work on any problem he likes irrespective of the applicability of his research to society. How can a mathematician working on number theory/algebra contribute to the society? His research can be only quantified by his papers. There are many people in engineering and science streams who work on problems which might not have immediate application. I am wondering how Anonymous@ August 13, 2015 at 2:50 PM is planning to contribute to the society?

What are you a scientist/student or some random person who has no understanding of how research is done?

S said...

Is a teaching seminar a common part of the interview process at most IITs?

Anonymous said...

@ August 13, 2015 at 2:50 PM:

This anon seems very adamant on accepting the fact that without papers/patents one cannot directly make a product ! Without protecting an IP (/in the form of Patents/copyright/trade-secret), no one in the world would try commercializing it (i.e. converting to a product).

The above para clears up the utility of patents in product development..now Lets talk about papers utility...research papers are created to disseminate knowledge. That knowledge without which the newcomers will have no base to work on..or nothing to take forward...! Secondly, research papers in quality journals help assessment of a theory/result by receiving technical feedback from peers/experts. Many algorithms published in research papers serve as foundation for multiple product development cycle such as optimization algorithms for hardware in computer science field are found almost in any electronics gadgets...therefore without research papers, the society will starve of knowledge.

Finally, most of the contents of a standard textbooks for higher degrees are nothing but compilation/collection/accumulation of contents from good research papers published before. So research papers add multi-fold value to our society. Ignoring research papers would mean ignoring books...which means ignoring knowledge....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

and ignoring knowledge would mean degeneration of human advancement....so in a nutshell...yes scientific work for society/product development is important...however it can be achieved only through papers, patents, manpower development as medium........you cannot directly jump to a product...have to go through a product life cycle which includes studying papers/books, patent applications etc

S said...

"Without protecting an IP (/in the form of Patents/copyright/trade-secret), no one in the world would try commercializing it (i.e. converting to a product). "

There are well known and very important counterexamples to this strange claim: just look at the whole open-source software movement which powers almost all of the popular web applications today (including Google, which owns the platform on which this blog is hosted). Salk famously refused to patent the Polio vaccine. Much has been written in the US media on how patents, especially by large corporations, are now used more for quelling competition than for protecting innovation. (See for example http://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html which recounts the views of an engineer who worked for Sun Microsystems). Much has also been written about the system closer home in India, where the Supreme Court and the patent office have shown that a non-trivial number of patents are just not innovative enough.

Anonymous said...

Not all academic research needs to be immediately applicable. I doubt if Anon at August 13, 2015 at 2:50 PM is actually a faculty somewhere. If you are a faculty, I'm sorry to say that you don't quite understand the concept of academia and unfit for this job.
Publications are a way of establishing and disseminating the knowledge that a researcher creates. Every scientist starts with reading old papers and builds upon the existing knowledge (some exceptions like Ramanujan and Galois notwithstanding).

To say - "Only contributions to the society in terms of inventions and products are useful. Anyone can publish or patent. What use is that?" - is rather immature and in fact borderline stupid.

Anonymous said...

Dear all,

Do not feed trolls such as the anon@August 13, 2015 at 1:07 PM and the anon@August 13, 2015 at 2:50 PM.

Remember that
1. faculty position is a job which comes with a clear mandate to do research and teaching. One must leave verifiable evidence of excellence in these activities.
2. there is nothing wrong in making one's career and seeking fame and recognition in the global circuit. In the global arena, publications and results are the currency. It is only a small local minority in India that thinks otherwise. One can ignore them and their desperate calls to do something for society.
3. talented people are globally mobile. If someone annoys you enough, you can always move to another country where these people can no longer bother you, let alone think that they can lecture you.
4. those of you who want scientists to not publish and instead do sundry other social things, please find a job for yourself as the next Radhe maa or Asaram Bapu.

It is in everyone's interest to keep this forum focused on the topic and not get dragged into generalities and philosophical discussions.

Anonymous said...

to bring back the focus I repost my unanswered question:)

Is it wise to mention at department presentations at IITs

that I can contribute in so and so way..
say bringing certain technical skill, networking with foreign universities, academic codes etc...
Or do I run risk of being considered as Bragging?
Thanks in advance

Ordinary Person said...

Anon at August 14, 2015 at 11:51 AM

I wouldn't do that during the seminar as it would seem a bit awkward. However, when I visited some IITs and talked to faculty in my area, then these things came up and I did mention my plans.

It's good to have collaborations, but do keep in mind that there are some people in India who view collaborative work as a weakness and assume that you can't work independently. It's a bit unfortunate in my opinion, but this is what seems to be the case.

Anonymous said...

Radhe Maa and Asaram Bapu....Good one :)

Anonymous said...

@ s:

Regarding your comment "just look at the whole open-source software movement which powers almost all of the popular web applications today", I would like to mention software are not technically patentable as per IPO and USPTO ! This is because just by re-coding in a different high level language during implementation of some algorithm, one cannot claim a patent. So open source web applications that you are talking about are not qualified for a Patent application.

Regarding the polio vaccine case, it is an exception and its hard to figure out why one would not protect an IP if its novel completely.

Regarding your statement on "non-trivial number of patents are just not innovative enough.", it is highly stupid of IPO to first publish/grant a patent and then complain that is not innovative enough !! If it is not enough, then y did they at all publish/grant it !!!! This would never happen in case of US Patents... satisfying the novelty aspect is the first criteria (besides other two) for filing a patent application...therefore, as per your statement, if IPO after publishing/granting a patent complains about lack of novelty in it, then it is ridiculous...!

S said...

Anon: "I would like to mention software are not technically patentable as per IPO and USPTO"

This is not correct. What you probably meant is that algorithms are not patentable. Implementations are, and often the bar is so low that this has been used to chilling effect by both patent trolls and big companies. See for example the article already cited in my post, or the more recent Oracle vs. Google case on "patented" technology in the Java programming language. For a even more hilarious (or sad) example, see this article on software patents, by Jefferey Ullman, where he recounts how some patent trolls managed, in the 1980s, to take a company to court over a "patent" on triangular matrices.

S said...

Also, anonymous, the "evergreening" patents of various drug companies that were found to be "not innovative enough" (and hence denied) by both IPO and the Indian Supreme Court were both granted by USPTO, in whose dedication to only allowing true innovation to be patented you seem to have more faith than almost all experts I have come across.

Anonymous said...

@ S: For your comment on August 15, 2015 at 1:26 AM:

You are not well informed. I myself have few granted US Patents/Canadian Patents on algorithms applied on hardware design. In fact, IPO (not USPTO) does not allow algorithms to be Patented as per rule. What I meant was just by changing the language of implementation does not give right for a new patent.

Regarding your comment on drug Patenting, I am not sure, as I was talking with respect to electrical/computer engineering patenting. As far as I am concerned in electrical/computer engineering, have not seen USPTO or IPO grant a case where the application was not innovative enough. BTW, please keep in mind that IPO and USPTO do not have set of metrics to evaluate a Patent. For example, in terms of time frame USPTO is more lineant and allows 12 months of grace period after publication, which IPO does not.

and what I say above is not heard of but experienced myself...

S said...

Well, anon, it was you who claimed that "software are not technically patentable as per IPO and USPTO". As I pointed out to you, and as you now finally seem to have come around to believe, software is eminently patentable, sometimes to ridiculous extremes, with the USPTO>. And, yet, you claim, that I am the one who is misinformod.

In fact, yes, I was misinformed about the extent to which the USPTO system is broken, in the sense that unlike Europe and India, it does seem to allow patenting algorithms without implementations. Thankfully, even the USPTO thinks that just implementing something in a different language is not "innovative" enough, and does not go around giving patents for it. Thank heavens for small mercies.


I gave you examples of articles written by experts (those who have been called as expert witnesses in court cases or those who have had to deal with patent trolls themselves), and yet you continue to believe that USPTO does not "grant a case where the application was not innovative enough". If you think that triangular matrices (in the 1980s!) or rounded corners on electronic gadgets (all patents granted by USPTO) are really so innovative, you are welcome to believe that. You will find me (and a lot of experts) in complete disagreement, though.

S said...

Also, my more important point was that a non-trivial chunk of the most innovative software technology was actually never patented (even though it could potentially have been), and this actually led to a very fast growth in the field. Examples are all the major transmission protocols that form the technology underlying the Internet (TCP, IP, congestion control), almost all of the advances in programming language theory and practice (object orientation, functional programming, and most famously, influential programming languages such as LISP, COBOL, SML, ADA, and C), various scheduling algorithms used by operating systems, the hyper text transfer protocol and its original implementation, and so on and so forth.

Anonymous said...

@ S (August 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM):
'
You have written this.."...What you probably meant is that algorithms are not patentable.." This shows who was misinformed ! When I said software are not patentable, I meant automation of algorithms that does not show an application. For example a software for any search algorithm is not patentable. If it has utility as a part of a system where it is being utilized, then it may be...

Regarding your comment: ".. non-trivial chunk of the most innovative software technology was actually never patented..", I must say that that not all innovative technologies are patented technically based on their scope and utility, There are other forms of IP protection, which are not made visible in public domain, such as copyright, trade-secret and industrial design...which u may not know as an outsider as it is not in any public database...so pl don't guarantee that these networking/OS/http technologies have never been protected... and u well know what I am talking off..no wise man would publicly showcase (exceptipons are always there)/ his innovation without protecting his/her ownership (through either patents, copyrights, trade-secret or industrial design)..forget selling it...hope u heard of IP piracy which may create huge losses to the actual owner if not protected....so pl dont establish the fact that protection of an innovation is not required..!

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone:

Could you please share your thoughts on how to take the issue of denied authorship in published research paper where you contributed significantly.

Anonymous said...

Dear S (August 16, 2015 at 12:44 AM):

What are talking about ?? There are no patents related to TCP...highly misinformed !

Pl do a google patent search (if not USPTO, CIPO or IPO) on TCP and see innumerable patents on this ...how can u even say that ! and you call yourself an expert in Patents...!

Some people can go to any extent of providing fake information to convince others...

- YP

Anonymous said...

@ Anon August 16, 2015 at 8:16 AM:

Please report to the respective Editor/AE of the Journal or Chair of the Conference where the paper has got published. I am sure, if its is genuine, they will take it up...

S said...

Anon: OK, please give me the USPTO patent no. for the TCP congestion control algorithm as defined by the pioneering paper of Jacobson and Karels (available for free at http://ee.lbl.gov/papers/congavoid.pdf). OR for any of the algorithms described in later RFCs that developed on top of it and are implemented in a variety of open source and commercial systems.

Of course some people might have patented something about TCP. The fact that the most used (and the most innovative and groundbreaking) algorithms were actually never patented is the important point here.

Also, let's please talk in terms of arguments and available data, and not in terms of "some people".

S said...

Anon: Also, as I said in a later comment, I was indeed "misinformed" about how broken the USPTO system was, in that it even allowed patenting algorithms and not just implementations (something which neither Europe nor India seem to allow).

Also, all of the technologies I have listed were never protected as "trade secrets" either: that's why they are so freely parts of so many competing open-source and commercial systems. So please do not try to divert the argument in that direction.

I am not trying to argue, as you claim, that "protecting of innovation" is not required. What I am trying to argue (and it is not just me, this is essentially "common knowledge" in the technology and science sector these days, as is evidenced by the various articles by experts I cited in my posts) that the patent regimes in some cases have gone out of hand and are often being used less for "protecting innovation" and more for having a chilling effect on competition by the process of patenting trivialities. Patents are a requirement, but in their current implementation, especially in the software sector, they are very often serving more to hinder competition than to protect innovation. That's why so many people have been calling for a higher bar on what is considered "innovative" enough for a patent. This is especially relevant in the software sector where some of the most innovative inventions were actually never protected by patents.

iitmsriram said...

request to @S, @YP etc, please take your philosophical IP related arguments that don't directly pertain to prospective faculty at IIX elsewhere so the utility of this blog for the intended audience is better. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

@ S:

Various TCP related patents are available: US7925775, US20060182025, US20130343187, CA2737107A1, US8547839 and many more..........................

so dont say that TCP applied on something has never been patented...u r totally misinformed...basic algorithms can never be patented..but its application in a system can be..e.g binary search cannot be...but if it is used as apart of a system showing application, then can be....similarly other basic algorithms were perhaps not patented as they did not qualify until their application was demonstrated...got it !!!! pls know the rules from your expert circle...

Secondly: U were the first blogger who reverted a comment saying that many invenstions were never patented...instead I said that no one would try to commercialize something without protecting the IP...

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone,

If the department at IISc takes my faculty job application to the selection committee, they will let me know right? It has been two months since I submitted my application. Meanwhile, I am wondering if the department made progress in my application, and perhaps planning to target September 2015 council meeting.

I am eagerly awaiting my outcome of my application from a faculty from IISc. The department acknowledged my application. I do not want bother the department head yet as I may seem too eager. I am yet to visit the department as I am living abroad.

Thanks in advance for your inputs !

S said...

@iitmsriram: Sorry about the diversions. Notwithstanding anon's completely unsubstantiated (as would be obvious to anyone who looks up the patents he listed while keeping in mind that the JK TCP congestion control paper is from the 1980s) personal insults, I will refrain from any further comments on the topic.

Do bring the conversation back on the topic, I would be glad if someone could answer my original question: are undergraduate teaching seminars common as a part of the evaluation procedure at most IITs? (I would like to have one prepared in advance if this is the case).

Ordinary Person said...

I'm glad that people are back to the actual topic.

@S: I think it's good to be prepared with a teaching topic. Some (not all) IITs do ask you to give a teaching demonstration along with the research seminar. Some places, such as IIT Gandhinagar, explicitly mention this on their website.
However, these happen at the level of department only - to enable them to shortlist candidates. Selection committee looks only at your research seminar and interview.

iitmsriram said...

Adding to @OrdinaryPerson's remarks, at IITM, it varies by department. Science departments often ask for this separate teaching seminar (I know Maths, Chemistry and Management are asking for this), and they are also inviting the selection committee experts to sit in. These tend to be shorter versions of a standard lecture class, typical duration 15 - 20 minutes; they will give you a set of topics, sometimes they let you choose any topic you want. Most Engineering departments are not doing this and are doing only the standard research seminar + interview.

Anonymous said...

@ S:

You are again acting insensible. TCP congestion control published in 1980's, does not mean, it needs to be immediately patented/protected. As I said, the application of it in a system unless properly defined/invented, it cannot be filed for a patent just as an algorithm. This shown your understanding for patents.

By the way, how many years have you been in this business of patents ? :)

S said...

@Ordinary Person,iitmsriram: Thanks for the clarifications. The couple of (old) IITs I was in touch with a little while ago did not seem to have a teaching seminar, so I was curious.

Anonymous said...

@ S and Prof Sriram,

Some institutes ask you to go for teaching seminar (independent of research seminar) for evaluations. Generally you are allowed to present topic of your interest. Students will ask you questions and your focus should be to make them understand the lecture.

I fail to understand this logic as we should have a different teaching staff and research staff. This way we can have the best of both. Believe me the best teachers, I have seen were the ones who had no research laboratories. During my graduation, I attended credit course of 2 Nobel Laureates (LMB) and believe me they were extremely bad teachers! But we all agree that they are excellent researchers.

We are far away from this sort of arrangement at IITs which are primarily teaching institutes but senior Profs like Sriram and Madras can raise these points in faculty meetings or board meetings.

Anonymous said...

As you said, IITs are teaching institutes and recruitment is not done based on research. Faculty frequently become professors with 2-3 publications post Ph.D. Thus these are actually teaching staff. Proof: no IIT is in the top 500 universities in the world.

your second comment: "senior Profs like Sriram and Madras can raise these points in faculty meetings or board meetings." Do mean Sriram from IIT Madras, yes, he is the dean and holds administrative position. Prof. Giri Madras is the host of the blog, who is a popular teacher and good researcher but does not hold any position. He will not be allowed to talk in board meetings and he should not be allowed to talk also. Do not confuse people...

Anonymous said...

@ Anon above:

Your comment "IITs are teaching institutes and recruitment is not done based on research. Faculty frequently become professors with 2-3 publications post Ph.D. Thus these are actually teaching staff." is absolutely right.

Many faculty members in my new IIT, are highly jealous of others achievements (especially the publishing ones). The people who themselves had published only 2-3 papers in last 6 yrs (post-Ph.D.), are highly jealous of performing researchers who may have published lot of quality papers...This attitude needs to change..Rightly said by Swami Vivekananda many yrs back: "Jealousy is our National Sin"

Moreover, if someone gets a strong paper and he/she shares it across the dept, then others start getting annoyed, instead of conveying congratulations ! Further, if someone is a regular publisher /9active researcher with many projects, graduating Ph.Ds), then others start isolating him him/her ....as if performing is a crime in IIT...and this is the condition in a new IIT.....unbelievable ! IITs can never ever become world class institutes unless u change the mindset/attitude..............

Anonymous said...

Anon@August 19, 2015 at 7:54 AM

As I had written in,

http://giridharmadras.blogspot.in/2015/06/admissions-2015.html

people like you should not come and spoil the culture of the department or Institute. Writing 1 paper (max 2) a year is more than sufficient. Do proper teaching and serve the society. Write 1-2 max papers.

It is not us who have to change the mindset, you have to change your attitude..otherwise, you will become like the blog host publishing many papers and teaching many courses.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon: August 19, 2015 at 11:08 AM,

Wow what a strong smell of burning at heart !!

See if I publish many quality/hgh impact papers, I wont become a blog host, but would rather get presigious appintments in Editorial Boards of International Journals, would get awarded for research etc, bring fame to my country..serve my country with scentific name (like how the host of the blog is)....but people like u will only burn at heart...and will serve society with your burning sensation :D..and big mouth !!

Ordinary Person said...

@Indian Scientist and others: Teaching and research aren't supposed to be isolated activities and should not be viewed as such. Yes, a great researcher doesn't necessarily translate into a good teacher and vice versa. But you need to have both of them together. Having a teacher who isn't engaged in research would very soon lead to stagnation of curriculum. Look what happened to the big universities of India (Madras, Calcutta etc.) after independence. IITs/IISc/IISER are doing well because they take these two activities together.

Anonymous said...

To anon@August 19, 2015 at 11:29 AM

Sir, I am not burning..I am only telling for your own good. IITs are teaching institutions and majority are not expected to publish. It is a government institution where you can publish 20 papers in your lifetime and become a professor and relax for the rest of your life.

If you want to work hard, publish many papers become famous etc...do so but do not complain others are isolating you. They will do so because you are not following the culture of the institution. You can have it both ways

Read

http://giridharmadras.blogspot.in/2014/12/comments-on-blog.html

Anonymous said...

Kindly let me know if my application is shortlisted for selection committee consideration in IISC, I will be informed of it, correct?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon: August 19, 2015 at 12:55 PM

Thank you for your comments. It is an eye-opener indeed...!!

But the question is how did this culture start and y is it being practiced ? Y is there a neglect for people who perform ?

Anonymous said...

Anon@August 19, 2015 at 4:47 PM

Thank you, sir. The culture started when IIT was opened. At that time, we wanted good teaching institution and it is continuing like that, sir.

Sir, people who do not follow the predominant culture will be neglected or made fun of.

Anonymous said...

Why all (read most for conservatives) the directors of IISERs are from IITs and chemistry background? Will it influence recruitment of good faculty?

Ordinary Person said...

@Indian Scientist: What would we know about the selection process of directors, we're barely mere Assistant Professors ourselves.
However, reading experienced people's opinion tells us that interview for a director lasts close to 10 minutes. By no means can that lead to an objectively accurate decision.
http://dsanghi.blogspot.in/2015/03/selection-of-iit-director.html
http://dsanghi.blogspot.ch/2015/04/selection-of-academic-leaders.html

Anonymous said...

Do not ask questions about directors..this is a post for prospective faculty and not directors.

http://rankingwatch.blogspot.in/2015/06/what-indian-physicists-do.html

A vice chancellor of an university says, "The thing is that you have a job in the university, you have a job for life, you can decide to sleep, still you will get the salary..." it tells you what is the life of a professor in India.

Anonymous said...

Let me try one more time asking this question.

Kindly let me know if my application is shortlisted for selection committee consideration in IISC, I will be informed of it, correct?

Thanks for your inputs...

DST - INSPIRE Faculty Hopeful said...

Hi all,

I ended up on this blog via "Inspire Faculty" google search. I have been selected for Inspire faculty award in a natural science subject this year. I have 2 years of postdoc experience plus PhD from IIX. I came back to India few months back as I was confident of getting Inspire award.

After receiving the Inspire offer letter, I have applied to almost 20-25 institutes (IIXs, NITs) for a INSPIRE faculty position. To my horror, I did NOT get a single positive response so far. I wrote to deans/HoDs with (CC to director) for a position and/or if they want to schedule an interview or job seminar. Most of them didn't bother to reply; few replied saying they already have 'more than enough' faculty members in their depts; and couple of them asked me to apply for regular positions (which, they told, could take 6-7 months before the final result), implicitly saying no!

One of my friends suggested me to join some state university. However, my research work needs expensive instruments which are not available in that state university. Even if I assume that I can send my samples here & there for characterization, HoD said that university has no experience in hosting Inspire faculty and he does not think they will hire me permanently (because there will only be direct recruitment lest there is court case for flouting "rules")

Is there anyone among the regular contributors on this blog who has faced similar problems? I had already passed-on a postdoc offer because I want to settle in India. Should I wait for some more time before losing all hopes of Inspire faculty position? There are many Inspire faculties in IIX, how did they manage to secure position? Anyone here from 2015 batch and your status?

I would really appreciate if anyone could suggest me whom to approach in IISERs/newer IITs for a job seminar. Any pointers, please?

Giri@iisc said...

"It is not us who have to change the mindset, you have to change your attitude..otherwise, you will become like the blog host publishing many papers and teaching many courses."

Publishing many papers with good impact and teaching 3 courses a year is not a crime. My classes are big and I have many doctoral students who work with me and I am happy with what I am doing..

"Kindly let me know if my application is shortlisted for selection committee consideration in IISC, I will be informed of it, correct? Thanks for your inputs..."

Before it goes to the selection committee, it has to be shortlisted by the department. In that case, you would have visited the department, spent a day or two, given a talk and talked to many faculty members. Once it is shortlisted by the department, it will have to be approved by the divisional chairman. After this, a selection committee will be called (with two external members) and they will interview you over skype (or in person). Without visiting the department in person, you will not be shortlisted.

"After receiving the Inspire offer letter, I have applied to almost 20-25 institutes (IIXs, NITs) for a INSPIRE faculty position. To my horror, I did NOT get a single positive response so far."

Yes, it is possible. We have several faculty applications for a permanent position and all these positions are not filled. Further, we get a large number of applications to join as an INSPIRE faculty. Therefore, maybe a department may take 2-3 only.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giri,

Thank you very much for answering my questions regarding IISc shortlisting. I really appreciate your efforts and the time you are taking for answering our questions.

May you live longer, publish more papers, teach more classes, serve more institutes !

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

INSPIRE aspirant,

Not sure where you did your Postdoc from but Indian institute mindset at this moment (changing at a very slow pace) is that they believe only applicants from abroad should apply. Abroad is normally US/ UK/ West Europe and occasionally Japan. A friend applied from Korea, one IISc dept. interviewed him but they were showing an attitude as if he did a sin of applying to IISc. He had 20+ papers in high profile journals. Eventually he became a faculty in 'THE' top Korean Institute (much better ranked than the top institute of South Asia).

Few friends who actually went to India and applied never got any reply except one who was not hired. Again the belief is if you are back in India you cannot negotiate and you are just another applicant sitting around in India. Most of them went back and within two months of starting they applied again and now same institutes (HODs etc) replied promptly. Nothing much changed except Geographical location. May be if you do not indicate that you have permanently moved to India, they might start replying. I have also heard that a new dept at the top Indian institute in South Asia, refused to oblige their own offer letter once the chair was changed and a candidate was asked to go through the process again! Sorry this is a sad situation but I am sure things will change for you.


You can ask INSPIRE administrators, if institutes do not have vacancies for all INSPIRE faculty, why do they give them to candidates.

Anonymous said...

@ the Inspire awardee: I'm surprised that why would one leave their job and move to a different country without having a confirmed job offer from there?

@ Indian scientist: I'm also surprised that why would someone make generalisations based on anecdotes?

INSPIRE Faculty aspirant said...

INSPIRE aspirant here again-

Thank you Prof. Madras and Indian Scientist for your kind replies.

@ Indian Scientist: Well, I did a short postdoc stint in western Europe (not productive) and another from one of the top-20 (almost in all rankings) universities in the world. Indian Institutes judging a candidate from his/her geographical location appears too idiotic to be true. And I hope it isn't true! I can say from my experience that I had access to better research "facilities" during my PhD @ IIX than during my postdoc work at foreign university. I was also more 'productive' research-wise in PhD than in postdoc (though I acquired a different skill-set during postdoc work).

@ Prof Madras: I understand that IISc attract large applications for limited positions (Institute reputation, Bangalore weather, IISc Campus- a little heaven); and I did not send application to IISc (or to older, well-established IITs) for that reason.
-----

It probably was my fault to assume that Inspired awardees WILL be given an opportunity for research at a suitable institute. I took the literal meaning of Assured Opportunity in AORC [Assured Opportunity for Research Careers] :(

With my experience, I don't see any relevance of INSPIRE faculty award. And it is not because I am unable to find a host institute but because of the responses I got from certain XIXs: that "I should apply for a regular position; process is same for hiring Inspire and regular vacancies". Isn't then the whole process of INSPIRE interview, presentation redundant? Regular recruitment process takes 5-6 (at least) and Inspire awardee has to submit the joining report within 3 months, anyway!

I see many Inspire fellow in IIXs with academic profiles similar or worse than mine (I know such comparisons are fraught with fallacies). If I assume that all faculty positions available in newer IITs have been filled before July 2015, then why there is a rolling advertisements? Where do the INSPIRE faculty awardees fit in scheme of things?

It would be logical and understandable if after 1/2/3 year(s) of fellowship an Inspire faculty is let go (on account of unsatisfactory performance) but by not giving an opportunity itself is mockery of this AORC- INSPIRE award. In my opinion, it is better to scrap Inspire faculty award altogether-- it seems to serve no purpose whatsoever!

INSPIRE Faculty aspirant said...

@ Anonymous August 20, 2015 at 9:24 PM

"I'm surprised that why would one leave their job and move to a different country without having a confirmed job offer from there?"

Because:

1) Job that 'One' left was not a permanent job but a typical postdoc contractual job of 1.5 years and it got over.

2) Country to where One moved was his own and his family & friends stay. 'One' also plan to settle here not abroad.

3) Postdoc for one more year or two more years seemed a drag at that point.

4) With 20/20 hindsight, One was naive and stupid.

DST Inspire aspirant said...

INSPIRE aspirant again.

Thank you Prof. Madras and Indian Scientist for your kind replies.

@ Indian Scientist: Well, I did have a postdoc stint from Western Europe (not productive) and another from one of the top-20 (almost in all rankings) universities in the world.

@ Prof Madras: I understand that IISc attract large applications for limited positions (Institute reputation, Bangalore weather, IISc Campus- a little heaven); and I did not send application to IISc (or to older, well-established IITs) for that reason.
----

It probably was my fault to assume that Inspire awardees WILL be given an opportunity for research at a suitable institute. I took the literal meaning of Assured Opportunity in AORC [Assured Opportunity for Research Careers] :(

With my experience, I don't see any relevance of INSPIRE faculty award. And it is not because I am unable to find a host institute but because of the responses I got from certain XIXs: that "I should apply for a regular position; process is same for hiring Inspire and regular vacancies". Isn't then the whole process of INSPIRE interview, presentation redundant? Regular recruitment process takes 5-6 (at least) and Inspire awardee has to submit the joining report within 3 months, anyway!

I see many Inspire fellows in IIXs with academic profiles similar or worse than mine (I know such comparisons are fraught with fallacies). If I assume that all faculty positions available in newer IITs have been filled before July 2015, then why there is a rolling advertisements? Where do the INSPIRE faculty awardees fit in scheme of things?

It would be logical and understandable if after 1/2/3 year(s) of fellowship an Inspire faculty is let go (on account of unsatisfactory performance) but by not giving an opportunity itself is mockery of this AORC- INSPIRE award. In my opinion, it is better to scrap Inspire faculty award-- it seems to serve no purpose whatsoever!

Anonymous said...

Dear Inspire awardee, I will tell you some facts about inspire faculty fellowship. Your five years of experience as a inspire faculty will be counted like postdoc. After the inspire award (say 5 years) you will be only offered assistant professor appointment. Unless you work as regular assistant professor for three years, you will not be eligible for Associate professor appointment.

Apart from that several IITs select their faculty candidates thru a rigorous selection process, and there is no guarantee that an inspire faculty will clear the regular selection process after five years. If that happens it will be awkward for the HOoD for hosting someone for 5 years and taking his/her services in teaching and research and then ditching them (for whatever reason). Therefore several IITs are very careful in hosting Inspire fellows.

I have seen several candidates who have inspire fellowship and were denied regular appointment in selection committees. My sincere suggestion for you is to immediately apply for regular positions and use the research grant of inspire fellowship for your research.

Ordinary Person said...

I agree with the comments of Anonymous at August 21, 2015 at 10:23 AM.
My observations have been very similar. Many HODs consider Inspire awardees at par with postdocs. That is the reason that most people do not apply just for the Inspire award. They take up a faculty position at an IIT, then apply for Inspire award and use the research grant money for their work.
In fact, as you might have observed, if you want to apply for Inspire award through 'Institute mode', then the HODs require you to clear the selection committee interview first before agreeing to host you.

Ordinary Person said...

Just by reading on the website, DST and SERB seem to have very precise and different goals for their Inspire and Ramanujan awards. Ideally Inspire is supposed to be given to young scientists to start their research career. Ramanujan is supposed to be given to accomplished and experienced scientists from abroad who want to return to India.

But in practice, it seems that IITs view them just as ordinary research grants for people joining as Assistant Professors.

Giri@iisc said...

IISc has close to 60 INSPIRE faculty but I doubt it can absorb more. See you need to give space, time as well as students to these faculty. Therefore, many heads think that they will give it to a faculty rather than to someone who may not stay beyond 3 years. Many INSPIRE faculty in IISc have left to become regular faculty in IITs and other universities. But you should apply to IISc/old IITs. You never know where there is a fit.

August 20, 2015 at 6:35 PM
Regarding IISc shortlisting, if you have already visited IISc and want to know the status, ask one of the faculty you met to tell you informally. No one will tell you formally because the selection committee may still shoot it down. Also, email may not work, so call. But some chairman write diplomatically, "Though I think the chances of your selection are *very high*/*very low*, the selection committee will make the final decision"

August 21, 2015 at 1:17 PM
Ramanujam award from DST is for people from abroad only who want to join as assistant professor. Previously, you could apply even if you had a permanent position as asst prof in IITs. Currently, if you hold a permanent position, you are ineligible to apply.

August 13, 2015 at 1:07 PM

Contribution to society does not mean you can only open a company or make a product. As an academician, my job is to teach and train students. These students later become managers in industries or faculty in colleges. Seven of my students are faculty in IITs and many are managers in industries. I am proud of them and this is my contribution to society.
I have patents and processes that have been commercialized but I do not work towards that goal. They are a byproduct of research. As I said, my primary goal is to train students and generate outstanding manpower ! You are, of course, welcome to disagree.

August 19, 2015 at 12:55 PM

I do not disagree with you and I agree that there is some truth in what you say. But people who perform are ignored by a few, ostracized by a few, respected by a few etc. But that is society. No need to complain.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giri,

Thanks again for your suggestions for IISc shortlisting. I am going to use your suggestions
after I visit the department, to know the status of my application.

For now, I am going to request the HoD if I can visit the department during my next visit to India in a couple of months. Your previous feedback made it clear to me that without the visit it is unlikely that I am shortlisted.

My request to the HoD for a visit will also help me to understand if my application indeed interests the faculty selection committee for a visit.

Thanks again for these inputs. You have no idea (perhaps you have) of what a relief it is to me to talk to a mentor like you on my academic applications.

Thanks,

Giri@iisc said...

August 21, 2015 at 5:23 PM

Invite yourself. You can write to many institutes and tell them you will like to give a talk/seminar. Most will not refuse even if they are not considering you seriously. After the talk, it may so happen that they get impressed !

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof Giri,

Thanks again. After your feedback, I am going to shed that shyness, shed that feeling of potential rejection, and confidently request IISc for a visit date.

IITs of my preference have already issued invites. Of course, I am going to visit them, too.

Thanks for your encouragement.

New Faculty Aspirant said...

In the context of ongoing discussion, I would like to know applying first to department/institute for faculty position and later (withing 2-3 months) visiting the department/institute for seminar would be better or first visiting the department/institute and later applying for position will be better. Kindly let us know, as it would be very helpful for timely preparation of applications and scheduling visits to different places. Thanking you in advance.

Anonymous said...

Hello New Faculty Aspirant,

I am an job applicant, too. I think it is good if you apply first so that the department/institute knows that you are seriously interested in the position and then later schedule a visit; for example, some institutes may even organize an informal Skype chat with you if you are abroad.

In fact if the department or institute is interested in your profile, they will then issue an invite. These invitations will allow you to have priorities for scheduling your visit to various departments/institutes.

Wishing you all the best

Anonymous said...

I am also aspiring for AP position and will like to share my experience
on the place of PhD. I did my PhD from a top 50 place in Europe.

However, it seems that the lack of course work in European institutes is a spot on your application.
As people already noted that IIX are teaching institutes and not research oriented so
a huge emphasis is on your GPA in PhD.

Prashant said...

Anonymous at August 24, 2015 at 7:30 PM:

Yes, I agree. Some people in IITs are still not comfortable with PhD degree from Europe, although I think these people are not in majority. During my interaction in India, there was always this minority to whom I had to convince that European universities are also very rigorous while granting PhD degrees. The two points of contention were - no course work during PhD and finishing PhD in 3 years.
But I was able to convince most people, or this is what I'd like to think :) Think of this as a normal process during job hunt where you have to make sure that your employer recognises and understands your potential.

Anonymous said...

No, your case is different. IIT Hyderabad will recruit ANYONE with a B.Tech from IIT even if they have just 1 publication for Ph.D and post doc combined. The director of IIT Hyderabad gives very high importance to B.Tech from IIT and does not care for any research performance afterwards. But if you do not have B.Tech from IIT and Ph.D from europe, you need to be exceptional.

Anonymous said...

@ Anons above yes it is true that PhD without coursework is considered sub par!
IIT Gandhinagar is one such place where only valid PhDs are from USA.

I really laugh when I read about faculty shortage stories.
Wish somebody told the tax payers & the suffering students about these grand biases!

Anonymous said...

Dear Prospective faculty,
Let me give you some hints. Please browse thru the faculty profiles of the IIT you are planning to join and come to an idea where to apply depending on your background. These are the possible cases you will find:

Category 1: B. Tech from IIX, M.Tech and PhD (from abroad), with good publications (20% of faculty)

Category 2: B.Tech from unknown colleges/ university, M.Tech from IIX and PhD (from abroad) with good publications (75% of faculty)

Category 3: B.Tech from unknown colleges/university, M.Tech from unknown colleges/ university and PhD from abroad with good publications (2-3%)

Category 4: B.Tech from unknown colleges/ university, M.Tech from unknown colleges/ university and PhD from IIX with good publications (2-3%)

All the above cases usually have 1-3 years off postdoc experience.

Now if you have a PhD from top 10 schools in the world it will have great advantage. This is because if a top 10 school admitted you for its PhD program, it means you are good. On top of this if you have a B.Tech from IIT you will just sail thru the interview even if you have 1-2 publications.

IITs which are doing very well (because of geographical locations) usually gets lots of applications and they prefer to only take candidates in 1st and 2nd category. IITs who cannot attract faculty will take anybody to run their program.

Anonymous said...

Hello,

Will joining a industry position in India reduce my chances of getting an faculty offer from IIT/IISc?

Basically, I am relocating to India, due to personal reasons. I have already applied for faculty positions; I am awaiting the applications outcomes. Meanwhile, I intend to join industry in India. Let me know the pros and cons of this step w.r.t to my faculty applications.

I intend to think in a positive way; I can visit the institutes when I am back to India; I can attend the interviews in person; connection with industry in India may make my application more attractive to academia as I can retain those contacts after I join as a faculty.

I am anticipating the academic interviews around the end of this year. If there is an offer, sometime in the beginning of next year; thereafter I can ask for additional 6 months to one year before I join.

What do you think of my plan? Feel free to comment...
Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Dear Blogreaders, Bloghost,

Let me know if joining an industry position in India will reduce my chances of getting an faculty job offer from IISc/IIT?

Basically, I am relocating to India (due to personal reasons). I am hoping to join academics in the near future.

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

@ Anon: August 24, 2015 at 10:42 PM,

I do not fall in any of the categories mentioned by you. I have a B.Tech from mediocre univ, MS from Canada, and Ph.D. from Canada. I had more than 35 papers at the end of my Ph.D.

When I received the offer from abroad, I had only submitted my Ph.D. thesis (waiting for defense).....For me the trick that did it was the research track record, as well as both MS and Ph.D from abroad......

Anonymous said...

and I did my education in Electronics & Computer engg...

By: same anon who posted August 25, 2015 at 7:34 AM

Anonymous said...

and I had received the offer from a new IIT...which is now very well....

By: same anon who posted August 25, 2015 at 7:34 AM

iitmsriram said...

@anon claims "As people already noted that IIX are teaching institutes and not research oriented so a huge emphasis is on your GPA in PhD". I don't know a single IIX where they look at the GPA in PhD. As another anon notes, majority of IIT faculty are "category 2" (I would leave aside the M.Tech. portion on this); whether we like it or not, as of today, all IITs have (relatively) large taught programs (B.Tech., M.Tech ...) and so class room teaching is a fact of life, unlike, say, at IISc where you can get by with limited teaching. My estimate is that approx 1/3 of your time will go in teaching at any IIT. For category 2 people with European PhD, this can be a problem. Not having gone through a solid grad level coursework program and having mainly sat through only UG level courses of varying quality and intensity is a very poor starting point to be teaching at IITs; but this would be a non-issue at IISc or any of the national laboratories / research institutions. I don't believe this is a quality commentary on either IITs / national research institutions or the candidates, but a question of candidate background matching the institutional expectation / requirement.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon: August 24, 2015 at 10:42 PM,,

Great that you made it into IIT. I was talking very generally, I suggest you just go and see the stats. How many people in the department you are going fall in category 2. A small correction to category 2:

Category 2: B.Tech from unknown colleges/ university, M.Tech from IIX and PhD (from IIX or abroad) with good publications (75% of faculty)

Adding to professor Sriram's comment, if you join a new IIT (most of them are stabilized now), you will be teaching at least 6-7 credits a semester, along with administrative duties, and on top of that you have to do research.



Anonymous said...

I am from IISc. I also have to teach two large classes (one UG and 1 PG and one UG lab) but what you mention on categories are different in IISc depending on department.

Biochemistry/Aerospace/Civil: Ph.D from IISc is required. Other things do not matter.
Chem Engg/Mech Engg/ECE: B.Tech/M.Tech from IIT and Ph.D from USA.
Materials Engg: Only research record matters.

This applies to 80% of the faculty in the department. This is the department culture and not IISc culture.

I have seen most IITs prefer B.Tech/M.Tech from IIT. That is okay because only research publications alone are not important. One should have sufficient background in many subjects.

Anonymous said...

Over the years I have seen that candidates who have M.Tech in IIX are taken seriously in faculty selections. GATE is one such exam that extracts the best undergrads in the country and is exactly as competitive as JEE. If you have an M.Tech from an IIX, you will do a lot of course work, and this will run in your favor in the selection committee. Also M.S from American univ will help (again due to the coursework factor).

iitmsriram said...

@IISc anon states "I also have to teach two large classes". What is a large class? Definition of what is a large class would vary significantly between IISc and (old) IITs, I would think.

Anonymous said...

107 UG and 87 PG

Anonymous said...

Firstly, thanks to iitmsriram and others behind this blog for their valuable time and effort in educating people aspiring faculty positions in India.

I see that most of the discussions here are towards IITs/IIsc. I wonder what opportunities exist in India for someone who is more interested in research than in teaching. How does the recruitment in CSIR,DRDO institutes happen? What other institutions should we look for apart from CSIR/DRDO. To be specific, in the field of engineering.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon August 25, 2015 at 2:50 PM,

It is very immature of you to make out that IITs/IISc are not research institutes. Rather CSIR/DRDO are stagnant orthodox organizations with no freedom of work.

In IIT, say 25-30 % time is devoted for teaching. Rest 70 % is all yours to do what research u want....If someone wants to do independent research with no administrative strangulation, no interference from seniors, then this is the place to be ! Centers of CSIR, DRDO mostly will have problems such as report to seniors, administrative bottleneck, funding problems, no independence of choosing research area/project (some case it may be dictated upon u), etc.....and I am talking from experience....

Anonymous said...

I am a PhD in Mechanical Engineering currently working as postdoc abroad.

Can someone elaborate on process of applying for Ramanujam Fellowship?
I read the guidelines where it says-
"The availability of Ramanujan Fellowships will be advertised by various academic and research In
stitutions on their website"
But could not find such advertisements on IIXs.

Also does Ramanujam lead to faculty position or is not linked?

Anonymous said...

I have got an offer from NIT which states
Assistant Professor on Contract in Pay Band 3 with AGP 6000

What will be my basic in this case?
In case my previous experience is to be considered how many increments can I expect based on the number of years?

Thanks in advance

Anonymous said...

Dear Blogreaders, Bloghost,

Let me know if joining an industry position in India will reduce my chances of getting an faculty job offer from IISc/IIT?

Basically, I am relocating to India (due to personal reasons). I am hoping to join academics in the near future.

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

August 27, 2015 at 5:52 PM, It does not matter, but keep publishing 1-2 papers per year, this is very important. There should not be any gap in publications, it means that you are active in research and many IITs will consider your application positively.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous at August 27, 2015 at 5:52 PM,

Thank you very much for your feedback and suggestions.

Regards,

Anonymous said...

Dear August 28, 2015 at 3:26 PM, also keep a watch on your age, if you plan to apply for assistant professor position, you should apply before you turn 35.

Anonymous said...

Dear August 28, 2015 at 6:53 PM,

Thanks again. I just turned 35 this year.

As I am relocating to India this year, I have already submitted my applications to academia. I am awaiting their outcomes. I applied both for assistant/associate professor positions. Meanwhile, I want to join some industry position in India. (Due to personal reasons, I am planning to relocate to India as soon as possible).

So, if I am shortlisted for academic positions, at the time of interview, I will be working in an industry in India. So, I was wondering if taking an industry position in India---could be a disadvantage factor for me in getting an academic job at IITs/IISCs (the previous comments in this forum mentioned not to worry about taking a industry position in India).

I hope my application is considered for associate professor positions at IITs (I know at IISc this is not an option). I have PhD + 5 years of postdoc/industry experience.

Thanks for your feedback and insights...

iitmsriram said...

Associate Prof at IITs requires 6 years of experience including 3 years at the level of assistant professor (or eqvt). If the industry position is not seen as equivalent to asst prof, @industry anon moving to India will not be eligible.

Anonymous said...

I am a PhD in Mechanical Engineering currently working as postdoc abroad.

Can someone elaborate on process of applying for Ramanujam Fellowship?
I read the guidelines where it says-
"The availability of Ramanujan Fellowships will be advertised by various academic and research In
stitutions on their website"
But could not find such advertisements on IIXs.

Also does Ramanujam lead to faculty position or is not linked?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. IITMSriram,

Thanks for your response and feedback.

Regards,

Anonymous said...

Dear August 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, first some institute from India should nominate you that if you get the fellowship they will host you.

If you are looking for faculty positions in India, first get the faculty position and then apply for Ramanujan fellowship from abroad. Just like inspire fellowship, very few IITs will be willing to host you if you dont have a permanent position.

Ramanujan fellowship does not lead to the faculty position, you have to apply separately for permanent position.

Best wishes,

Anonymous said...

Thanks anon above.
If I understand correctly then first should get selected as faculty then will be nominated?
That sounds bit counter-intuitive and counterproductive!

Anonymous said...

Dear August 30, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Unfortunately that is how it works. Unless your area of expertise is something that the department is desperately looking for and they want to hire you, only in those cases they will nominate you. In any case, you should visit the institutes in which you want to work and give a talk. Meet the HOD and discuss the possibility of nominating you for the Ramanujan fellow.

Ramanujan fellowship is also for permanent faculty members working abroad who want to spend some time in India, for them its not a problem. The institutes will nominate, if they are very well known and are willing to work in India.

The case of prospective faculty applying for Ramanujan fellowship to land in India and work for some time is treated differently.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the details on Ramanujam fellowship!

Anonymous said...

The great Indian academic circus

http://www.manit.ac.in/manitbpl/Year%202015/Recruitment/order%20new.pdf

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone,

As I am preparing for my academic job talk, I am wondering how will an good written abstract and bio will look like? (I guess your feedback can be applied in general to an academic talk.)

In this forum, earlier professors have provided advice what the talk should constitute, so, I am not repeating that question here.

Thanks for your inputs,

Anonymous said...

I made at least one grammar mistake above :)
"a good written abstract"

Anonymous said...

Hello,

Any one knows when the council meeting will be held this month, September, at the IISc? I am hoping to receive my outcome for my application at the IISc. So, just curious to know...

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Prof Sriram can you please share your opinion on following:

For the post of Assistant Professor some IITs say-

At least 3 years industrial/research/teaching experience after
completing Ph.D

and some

Ph.D. with three or more years of teaching/research/professional
experience excluding the experience gained while pursuing PhD.

Which one of the above is correct i.e. as per MHRD/GoI?
Can you comment on their sanctity?

iitmsriram said...

The official MHRD (GoI) requirement is "Ph.D., with first class or equivalent at the preceding degree in the appropriate branch with consistently good academic record throughout and at least 3 years industrial / research / teaching experience excluding however, the experience gained while pursuing Ph.D." This means that the selection committee can consider relevant Pre-PhD experience (while not pursuing PhD). However, general GoI principle when a job calls for x degree and y years of experience is that y will be reckoned only after x is completed. In spite of the wording in the MHRD circular, there is sometimes difficulty with audit when the recruitment files are subsequently scrutinised. This problem becomes harder when looking at associate and full professor positions where the specific term about "excluding experience gained while pursuing PhD" term is not there - so audit usually insists on the GoI principle. Some IITs therefore play it safe and put it all as post-PhD experience.

Anonymous said...

Prof Sriram Thank you for your comments.

In case one wants to clarify this through RTI what is the appellate body?

iitmsriram said...

@anon, what RTI? Each IIT will give whatever they have put under their ad if you ask under RTI. If you ask for MHRD circular, the IIT may give the MHRD circular or forward to MHRD and you will get the circular. RTI will only provide information on what is being done, there is no provision under RTI to ask why something is being done in a particular manner.

Anonymous said...

Hello,

Any one knows when the council meeting will be held this month, September, at the IISc? I am hoping to receive my outcome for my application at the IISc. So, just curious to know...

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Prof Sriram
I mean to ask only the fact whether pre PhD experience is to be considered or not?
I do not want to know why.

Because if some IITs consider and some do not than it is not balanced.
Every IIT should follow the same criteria of MHRD ? or do they have autonomy in deciding this?

Anonymous said...

Let me try one last time ...

Any one knows when the council meeting will be held this month, September, at the IISc? I am hoping to receive my outcome for my application at the IISc. So, just curious to know...

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Dear Profs Sriram and Madras,

How are associate or Professors are appointed directly in India? I have never heard any institute directly hiring from outside India? Do you have anyone appointed on those positions directly in the last 10 years?

Thank you

iitmsriram said...

@anon, perhaps you haven't heard because the numbers are relative small. Every year IITM makes 2 - 3 direct associate / full professor offers for external overseas candidates and about an equal number for external - within India candidates. Three of the current deans of IITM joined directly as professors from abroad. In the current year recruitment also we have made one direct professor and one associate professor offer for overseas candidates and one direct associate professor external within India. About 20 of the current professors of IITM joined directly as professors, mostly from overseas. More offers are made, but perhaps one third or so of such externals do not join (or join and leave within a short period).

Anonymous said...

Hello Prof. Sriram

Can you able to clarify on how teaching fellows are recruited in IITs. Especially I see significant amount of teaching fellows in Mandi and Gandhinagar. I only see advertisements for faculty openings but not for teaching fellows. Can you explain this process?

iitmsriram said...

@anon, IITM does not have teaching fellows, so I have no idea how this is done. I would suggest you send mail to the directors of those places, both Prof. Gonsalves and Jain reply actively to emails.

Anonymous said...

Anon asking about teaching fellows !!

It appears gandhinagar presently do not have any such teaching fellows though the institute had such practice in the past. Mandi still has a lot of teaching fellows. Such people are generally hired on a contract basis with lower salary than APs. I am pretty sure that it is not through any rigorous procedures adopted for faculty selection. Mostly based on the recommendations by senior profs to the school chair or the director or etc etc.

Anonymous said...

Colossal waste
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/PMO-Sets-Monthly-Test-for-DRDO-to-Shake-Up-Shape-Up-Scientists/2015/09/14/article3026993.ece

Anonymous said...

Fixing accountability for an under-performing and highly bureaucratic organisation like DRDO isn't a bad thing. But making them submit progress reports every month is a bit too harsh.

Anonymous said...

The council meeting of IISc is this weekend. However, unless you had been interviewed by a selection committee in the last two weeks, your case will not be considered by the council.

Anonymous said...

I was the person who requested multiple times regarding the council meeting at IISC. Thank you very much for this update. Yes, there was NO interview that I was called for by the selection committee. So, I am NOT going to expect anything.

Thank you again for giving me this information.

Regards,

Giri@iisc said...

The council meeting in IISc is held usually on the third saturday of March, June, Sep and Dec.

Before the council meeting, the selection committees are set up and ONLY the candidates shortlisted by the department are interviewed by the selection committee. The interviews may be by skype or person and the committee is headed by the director. If you had been interviewed by the selection committee, the chairman can unofficially inform you of the result because the council rarely turns down the recommendation of the selection committee.

Appointment letters will be sent 1-2 weeks after the council meeting but if you ask the chairman, he can get you an unofficial copy and scan it for you.

Hope these information clarifies your question.

PK said...

Dear All

I was selected for INSPIRE faculty fellowship in session-II,2014. Results were declared in Jan 2015 and we were asked to submit the documents within three months. DST has confirmed that they have received my complete documents and I exchanged couple of mails with them. But they are not responding to mails/phone calls regarding release of sanction letter/funds. Has anybody selected during same time have received sanction letter? Thank you in anticipation for your answer to my query.

PK

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giri,

Thank you very much for this clarification and the detailed notes about the selection committee.

Yes, this clarifies to me everything about the selection committee procedures.

Thank you very much for taking your time to ease my anxiety.

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Can anyone comment on the chances of getting AP for Engineering in IIT ?
Background:
1 year of post doc at European University in top 20
PhD from European University in top 100
Masters from IIT
Industrial experience of 5 years before PhD
4 decent journal publications
Age 37

Anonymous said...

Dear @September 22, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Apply immediately without any delay. Apply to IITs who are looking for people in your specialization.

ruta said...

@PK about DST-INSPIRE Faculty.
I got the award in the same batch. My situation is exactly the same as yours. Completed all the formalities, "documents approved" by the DST but no sanction letter and funds as yet.
I am anxious to know about the status of INSPIRE Faculty funding and any other relevant information.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon@September 23, 2015 at 7:30 AM

Thanks for the reply.
So there is still some hope past 35?

Next how to find IITs looking for my specialization.Nobody replies to emails. Difficult to catch on phone too!
Regards

Anonymous said...

Anon @ September 23, 2015 at 3:32 PM:

Contact the young faculty who are working in your area. Probably they could let you know if the dept is looking for your specialization or not!

Anonymous said...

@Above Thanks for the suggestion!

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