Pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc
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3,339 comments:
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Any idea regarding the number of candidates likely to be selected under direct / nomination mode? Will it be higher compared to last year? Will the result of both direct and nomination mode be published simultaneously? Or are there separate lists for direct and nomination mode?
Any idea about the interview for biology candidates for the UGC FRP programme? Have they been shortlisted?
UGC - FRP Biology interviews will be next month I guess. When I asked about the results they mentioned that they will announce the results in sept after finishing the biology interviews.
Can somebody has any concrete news about when the Inspire Faculty results will be out?
Last time they announced 10 days after (16th Dec) the last interview (6th Dec). When are the interviews going to end this time?
PNO
@Anon
I was told that the results will be out by August end only.
@ DST INSPIRE
Any idea about how many candidates will be selected? Will they be more liberal this time? Got any news on the selection?
anon wonders "Isn't it unusual that two of his students get selected for the same department by the same selection committee?". Well, one of them (the one with two offers) completed masters under our blog host's guidance in 2005 and has a PhD from a US univ (working in a different area) while the other one finished PhD under our blog host's guidance in 2010, did a two year post-doc at a US univ and was already a visiting faculty at IITM. Prof. Giri has served on IITM selection committees in the past, but had to be avoided this time as he was guide for several candidates.
And, Ankur, IIX charge nominal license fees for quarters, ranging from a couple of hundred to over a thousand per month depending on size. The rates are fixed by Government of India; some administrative posts come with license fee free quarters. The much bigger effect is the loss of HRA, the effective "rent" being HRA + license fees. IITM charges for electricity (at actuals), water (at slab rates based on size, ranges from about 100 to about 500 per month) and garbage disposal (30 per month); these will vary with institution.
Hi,
Any successful candidate @ IIT Jodhpur, please share your experience on Seminar and Interview.
Feedback from others are also welcome. Though I have heard a lot criticism BOUT IITJ recruitment process, but I also want to hear positive points.
Thanks.
Dear All,
I have some few anons posting questions about IIT-Jodhpur. But to my astonishment, no one is bothering to answer.
Please pinch in your feedback to his question.
Thank you.
Those of you who can fit into B-schools may want to consider some private B-schools mentioned here. Unlike our public institutions these places seem determined to improve their ranking and have gone ahead and implemented incentives for faculty research.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/bschools-plan-variable-pay-for-foreign-tag/978943/0
@ Anonymous July 26, 2012 9:24 PM & July 27, 2012 12:19 AM Asking about IITJ recruitment process
I have got an offer from IITJ. Recruitment process was quite grilling for me - most of the questions were from basics and very few were from research. Attitude of selection committee was more towards showing what you do not know and what you have done wrong. It was very frustrating experience, and, then I got the offer.
First there was a faculty talk, I was given half an hour to present all of my research and then in between they keep telling me to wrap up. After that one meeting with a member of (possibly the chair) of selection committee (very informal and it went really good) and then the selection committee interview (no presentation). It took two days.
IITJ took good care of candidates - picked from railways station, nice accommodation and food and then dropped us back at our train timings.
About joining: I am still thinking.
@Anon July 27, 2012 9:29 AM
Thanks for sharing.You got an offer on contract or for regular position.
I heard IITJ only provide contract offer? Is it true in your case?
@July 27, 2012 9:29 AM,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Congrats !
About ".....quite grilling for me - most of the questions were from basics and very few were from research"
1) You mean they asked you questions from undergraduate level and not from Masters and Ph.D ?
2) Could you kindly let me know what kind of grilling questions were asked ?
Thanks for your info
@July 27, 2012 9:29 AM,
JUST ADDING UP, MY 3RD QUESTION:
How did the Director respond to your answers and why are you in a fix about your joining ?
Please respond with your answers since its helps the prospective ones.
I was just thinking to share my interview experience in the UK as well as INDIAN IIT. I had my interview at Imperial college, The talk went on well for 20 min and followed by a discussion of 10 min. The questions asked were completely relevant to the topic since the Prof were also working or knowing about this. I had an Interview later for half he in which I thought it was like a discussion how I should attract funds for research and develop the research. It went very well smoothly and I had the offer.
I should say in INDIA(IIX) I had the talk disturbed by colleagues not allowing me to continue. Just wanted to prove they were superior. Prof's In the panel from diverse fields asking too many irrelevant questions. then in the interview they asked me as stupid questions as possible not relating to research or funding. This is the reason I think there is a major failure in the Academic research in INDIA. Agreed or not this is the fact. I understand we are not a rich country but still good research could be done if they attract good people. Just memorizing some equations in the interview and getting it ou doe not really help and finally when an INdian Academic performs well abroad, India wants to take credit. I should also say that IIX did not offer, I'm happy with the world's leading institution Imperial college.
ALL THE BEST FOR ALL FACULTY ASPIRANTS IN INDIA
@ July 28, 2012 2:43 AM,
Congrats for your Offer !!
You may be right, but could you please elaborate your experience in IIT interviews. Particularly, which IIT behaved badly and what were the silly questions asked ?
To anon at 2:43am: Well, I had exactly the opposite experience. The HOD of department X at Imperial College asked me: What is the socio-economic impact of you research ? Well I think one could ask him the same and wonder if he has anything to say at all after 3 decades of research. My personal experience (which of course I dont generalize) at Imperial was that people are highly snob and arrogant . At the end they asked few STUPID questions. About the dpeartment,at least in my area I felt its reputaion is an artifact of typical British mentality of inflating things much beyond what they really are. Take for e.g. David Beckham, Michael Owen and many others :). Au contraire my brother, experience at a leading IIX was very pleasant. So was in US universities. The departmental seminar/interaction was highly relevant and cordial. The senior people have been extremely helpful and quite prompt. I dont know if this is an exception in the broader context in India, but thats how I felt. I have strong reasons to believe (reliable inputs) that Imperial is also highly racist when it comes to things like promotion and an Indian could alsways be hounded by glass ceilings, even with spectacular performance, unlike in US.
I have an offer from the leading IIX, from a midranked US university and interview calls from Nanyang and a top ranked US university. I have accepted the offer from the leading IIX and declined others. Why ? I liked the IIX enviornment, its people and of course because I want to contribute for my country than run after a big house or a Jaguar. I think the last reason, stand alone is good enough.
^
Contd..
BTW, I did not have any godfather to "push" me.
To Anon @ 6.20 am, well said...
Any news on Ramanujan Fellowship results?
When will Indian administers learn to have a schedule for recruitment related activities, atleat in the case of prestigious fellowships !
I second some of the opinions of Anon @July 28, 2012 6:20 AM
I think an assistant professor position at an IIT is a better choice career-wise than a tenure-track position at a middle-ranked US school. Many of these schools are under duress and are desperate for funds. That desperation is passed on to young faculty. They also get students who are semi-bright with a main interest in immigration to the US rather than research.
Even though IITs may not be super-conducive for research, they will give you a chance to use your time productively. If you work hard, you can potentially publish at a higher rate and do work of better quality than your mid-rank-tenure-track counterparts. Perhaps some years later when the funding situation in the American system eases and you have a name for yourself, you can try to head back, if you so wish. I think many Chinese young faculty are doing this.
Anon@July 28, 2012 6:20 AM
Are you planning to come at Nanyang for interview?
I am at Nanyang. would love to meet you here.
@ Anon of 10:20 AM.
Sorry. But I have already accepted the offer from the IIX. Hence due to obvious reasons, I wrote/called the HODs from other places (one of them was Nanyang) and politely declined their offers or interview calls.
@ Ankur,
I have few questions for you.
1) what is the procedure for taking undergraduate students (as research assistant/programmer) to work in your research project @ IIT ?
2) Do you have to put an advertisement for an open research assistant/programmer or just openly inform the students in the class and whoever is interested will contact the prof?
3) Do they have to be compulsorily paid ? (I dont mind if funds are available)
Thanks.
I have not joined any position as yet, so I don't know. Saswata may be able to answer these questions.
@ Saswata:
Can you please pinch in ur feedback....?
^
Some IITs allow you to recruit UG students officially from your project fund. Otherwise, you can simply maintain a website and 1st/2nd year UG students will contact you even if you can't pay them! But please don't expect 3rd year IIT UGs to work with you, as most of them look for "foreign internships". There can be a few exceptions if you teach well, as most UG students will not understand your research and rate you more as a teacher.
Thank you Saswata. It helps !
The other way is not to worry about all this and play politics. Thus with a h-index of 5, you can become a top administrator in these IITs and screw the young faculty.
Comment: Anonymous said...
The other way is not to worry about all this and play politics. Thus with a h-index of 5, you can become a top administrator in these IITs and screw the young faculty.
Anonymous Reply: I second it! In fact, mot our award winning committee and promotion committee Profs have h index 5 and they screw or murder competent faculty with h-index more than 30.
Today, I was told that `technolgy development' is a key parameter, not the h-index. Are we doing it? Yes, most of our colleagues (non-productive) keep oiling all those selection committee members such as taking them to pubs etc and they are getting easy awards to develop `technolgy' (how to butter the perres?!) Cheers!
^
A h-index of 5 is not required to become a top administrator in an IIT. Just having a h-index of 3 is enough, as has been pointed out before!
Saswata,
Initially I laughed at your comment and did not understand your comment (being new to this blog). Now, I do. It is even more pathetic than I thought !
These "experts" who serve on award committees are revengeful and have remarked "We will make sure that this person who has a h-index of 40 will get nothing (awards or promotions or fellowships)..." This is their life mission..it is not to do research.
Unfortunately, many administrators in IITs have the same attitude.
Prof. Giri, do not delete this comment. You know this is correct from your own experience.
iit_prof
If things are the way iit_prof says they are, why aren't these star researchers moving to better places? Not necessarily to the US, but may to other places - Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, Canada, Europe... the options are so many! Why do so many keep saying that they like the intellectual environment at IIXs and stay on? Isn't it paradoxical?
@iit_prof: Thanks very much for your comments. I do agree with you being an another iit_prof!
@Ankur Kulkarni: Yes, people like Prof Giri and many other famous profs in India who did not get much recognition can leave. In that case, do you think the situation will be better for non-performing faculty? Then the non-performers will fight against each other and each iit/iisc would become worse than a private college or any other! But, good news for you is we are heading to that type and we will achieve that status by 2050 (after 100 years of independece)
This blog is completely focused on IIX but have people even given a thought to new private universities coming up.
Do people forget that MIT, Stanford, Cornell etc are all Private Universities ?
"Why do so many keep saying that they like the intellectual environment at IIXs and stay on?"
Many performers stay in India despite being treated like sh*t because of their family situation.
Anon@12.46: I think 2050 is being too optimistic.
iit_prof
@iit_prof
July 29, 2012 12:55 PM,
Some of your comments like "Many performers stay in India despite being treated like sh*t ..." are making the young prospective faculty like me afraid of IIT environment !!
The word that you used to describe the treatment of IIT Profs is scary !...and I would like to know more about the details of your statement from you. Could you please shed some light to this ? Thanks
@ Ankur,
Even I thought that IIT has an intellectual environment, hence I got inclined towards applying there. Is our conception completely wrong ? What do you think ?
Thanks,
@ iit_prof of 11:21 AM. Could you please cite few examples where researchers in IIX or any Indian institute have h-index => 40 but have not received a major award ?
I don't know. I think an having a general 'intellectual atmosphere' is distinct from having a serious interest in research and advancement of knowledge. In fact US univs have less of an intellectual atmosphere but are using their talents towards higher things. So long as IITs continue to derive their glory from the achievements of their students, and not from the achievements of their faculty, I will bet they will never reach any stature of note as research universities. See if there is a single IIT (or IIT dept) webpage that talks of recent achievements of its faculty. There is a clear reluctance to celebrate faculty.
"Even I thought that IIT has an intellectual environment, "
It has better intellectual environment than private engineering colleges and state universities. But that does not mean much.
"@ iit_prof of 11:21 AM. Could you please cite few examples where researchers in IIX or any Indian institute have h-index => 40 but have not received a major award ?"
In engineering, there is no person who has a h-index > 40. The highest is 37 of Prof. Giridhar. But he has not been elected to any academy. In fact, one person who heads the selection of two academies has told me he will make sure that Giridhar will not get it till he is the head of the sectional committee.
Regarding h-index>40 and not getting any award, I can name several (>20 people) but I can start with the collaborators of Prof. Giridhar in IISc..whose names are M.S. Hegde and J. Gopalakrishnan, both of whom have h-index of 47.
I can also name Bhatnagar award winners with h-index of < 10.
Prof. Giri: I know that you do not like if your name is mentioned or other names are mentioned but please do not delete this comment at least for some time. Of course, if what I said is wrong factually, please do delete the comment but post what is wrong factually.
iit_prof
@Ankur
"If things are the way iit_prof says they are, why aren't these star researchers moving to better places?"
People might like to stay in their own country despite facing many difficulties, and dream to work for the country (I know I might be sounding impractical, but there are people like that!). One can keep on expecting that things will get better over time. In my opinion, that will not happen till people come out openly against the not-so-qualified administrators who are ruining the research environment of the country! I don't understand why so many people are afraid and need to hide under anonymity. How would the administrators run the institutes without the faculty members?
We need people like Prof. Giri to lead institutes of India, and I am not ashamed to demand it, even though people might ignore my voice. I am sure that he would be a better administrator than some of the current ones with very low h-indices and research achievements.
(Prof. Giri, please don't delete this message even though it involves your name as an example.)
@ Ankur,
Well said, it really seems that faculty @ IIT does not get the recognition he/she deserves.
But I dont see any reason why the faculty must not reveal his achievements in his very own webpage !!
Regarding intellectual environment, I think since the quality of students joining IIT is great (though I am yet to learn how much great innovation ability they have), hence, definitely the Professors can create a good research group to work with. But I am wondering how much theoretical innovation capability they have (such as developing novel theorems/principles/methodologies etc). Being sound conceptually in existing theoretical knowledge (as well as being a good programmer) is one thing, and creating new theoretical knowledge for the engg science (which has applications) is a completely different thing !!
The trait of a good scientist lies in his ability to create new knowledge that tons of people can use in various applications!!
@ sawata and others:
What makes afraid as aa prospective faculty is that, is the system really so bad @ IIT, that so many people are complaining ?
As a faculty researcher, is there so much complications and authoritative requirements that a faculty researcher cannot perform ? Or are we talking about just enhancing it to great performance with better system (but currently with this clumsy system they are able to perform at a good level but not great) ?
^
The system varies from an IIT to another IIT, but it is certainly requires dramatic improvement! The administrators will typically block any such suggestions of improving the system. Some administrators are good researchers themselves, and they will run the system in a research-friendly way. Some others are poor researchers themselves, and they will try to make sure that the other faculty members remain poorer researchers than him/her. You can't even choose an IIT based on it's administrators as they keep on changing over time. An IIT which is "nice" to its faculty members today might become pathetic 5 years later. And the vice versa!
@ SASWATA:
Agree, but what I am still gazing about is how could some other regular faculty members (just like you) have so much power to keep you behind them ? I mean I understand that admin might have some power but how could any other regular faculty member create obstacles for someone?
^
I never mentioned that a regular faculty member creates obstacles for a colleague. In fact, most colleagues are quite helpful. It's the administrators who ruin the system in some IITs during their tenure. The reason varies from jealousy to incapability to sheer stupidity!
@ Saswata: My bad !
As soon I posted, realized that I misread your comment :)
But, you must carry on the good work. keep it up !
I agree with Saswata 100%.
@all New faculty of IIXs...Please keep yourself productive and you need to go for at least TWO promotion interviews...These selection committee members would try to tamper your chance if your publication record is good..Please do not give up in case you are turned down...Your job is to be the leader of your research area globally...you should not aim to be a big guy in INDIA..If you try so, you need to oil those Profs with poor academic records and you will be one among them in future!
I recall my promotion to Associate Prof. I was turned down and other two colleagues got it with much poorer academic record. I was told that I am a good friend of all so called top class journals' editors and that is why I could easily get publications. The selection committee even told that my papers are fraud as conveyed my PhD advisor as I did PhD in IIX. However, I did not stop publishing papers and now my papers are well cited throughout the world. Now I am a Prof, but I see how my work is received by others (a small subset is also Indian community)..
@ iit_prof : Thanks for your examples. However, I see that the names you mentioned are fellows of Indian National Academies etc. It is my ignorance or that I belong to a different field or that it is an impossible task itself to analyze their contributions and comment whether they deserve more. Probably they do. I do not believe that h-index is the sole and full proof criteria to analyze some individual`s credentials. Both ways. On the other hand no way, I am not trying to rationalize blots of Indian academia. I am sure there are numerous problems that needs attention, but this kind of "oiling", "contacts" etc are widely prevalent in US as well. Do you think selection to the US NAE or NAS or AAS is bias/controversy free ? I am mostly sure that this problem is present in (much ?) greater magnitude in India. But I doubt whether being a "revolutionary" like Saswata and openly criticizing the director will help. That is going to cause anarchy and science cannot thrive in anarchy, be it in mind or in your neighborhood. Personally I do not find that dignified enough and one can get even fired for that any place on earth. We are moving forward, hence I am afraid such negativity might hamper even this growth. So, if criticize please do so constructively. I think a sustained, determined but dignified "movement" is required to abolish such corruption and nepotism. In fact this blog of Prof. madras is doing exactly that but in a very dignified manner. Have you ever seen him yelling at the non-performing directors/awards committee and using foul words ? Finally, my personal opinion is that directing an institute and being a great researcher may not be well correlated due to the management side of the job. Einstein might not have been an excellent administrator. Remember if a great researcher becomes an administrator, the country and science might loose great scientific output as well. Can we afford that ? However, the administrator must have deep appreciation and understanding of what good research is and how it could be fostered by creating a congenial environment and the vision to move the institute forward. If a person with a single digit h index can deliver that, I have no problem. Whether that is possible or not is a matter of debate and maybe someone can compile us some performance statistics (say nos of papers, total citations, h index ect) of the deans, NSF program managers, provosts, and presidents of top 100 US universities. This might be a good exercise that might provide some directions for IIX boards, maybe not now, maybe 5-10 years for now. At least if this database exists in a prominent place, it would be hard to ignore.
"Finally, my personal opinion is that directing an institute and being a great researcher may not be well correlated due to the management side of the job."
There exist specialists who can do both. They are there, running universities around the world. There are ample examples of departments and universities that have turned around in 10-20 years by hiring the right people. Let's not pretend that university administration is some highly intractable open problem. We only need to download the right administrators and install them.
Ankur Kulkarni: "See if there is a single IIT (or IIT dept) webpage that talks of recent achievements of its faculty. There is a clear reluctance to celebrate faculty. "
You might like to have a look at http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/.
Also, I don't quite understand the fixation with h-index. It is well known how h-indices can be gamed by publishing more review articles than research articles: measures are useful only till they do not themselves become an end, and it seems h-index and impact factor might be well past that point. I am happy to be in a field where these terms are (thankfully) virtually unheard of.
^
Tendulkar scored some runs against weaker teams (comparable to gaming h-indices by writing survey papers), but he is still a much better batsman than Nehra, correct? Two people having h-indices 3 and 5 might not be comparable, but one having 37 is certainly better researcher than another having 3. The question is: is the person having the h-index 37 better as an administrator than the person having it as 3? My answer is yes, if the institute wants to establish itself as a research institute. If the institute wants to remain a UG teaching college, then h-index doesn't matter in my opinion.
The google citation profile is available as a tab in the blog. Click on that. There is not a single review paper to result in a h-index of 37. Make sure that you check before you accuse people of manipulating h-index.
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=PUZ8qcgAAAAJ
@saswata: I broadly agree with you about h-indices, and I was not trying to make any comment about administration.
On the other hand, I do think there is a problem if people start quoting h-indices (even withing their own fields!) as the final arbiter of who is a better researcher. (For that matter, I don't even think that the field of researches is well-ordered :)) Further, I would think the validity of h-index as an index of research quality would become worse at higher h-indices.
@Anonymous: May I kindly request you to point to me where I accused anybody in particular of manipulating h-indices? I believe, that you, like most readers of this blog, would have the ability to distinguish between the statements "h-index can be manipulated" and "a particular person X has manipulated her h-index". (If you can't, which I highly doubt is the case, you should probably be taking a course in propositional logic)
On the other hand, since you very disingenuously tried to put words about Prof Madras ( I believe) in my mouth, I will say this: I think it is it is in insult to a researcher of Prof Madras's caliber if people reduce him to a number and say that "Prof Madras is a good researcher because he has a high h-index." If you want to show real appreciation for his research, talk about the research, not about statistics.
You will notice, for example, that Prof Madras does not mention his h-index or z-index or this index or that index on his publications page. He just lists his papers. A good researcher like him doesn't need to resort to spouting statistics to justify his work: the work can speak for itself.
I can show genius minds without publications. One such person is Dr. Pawan Kumar from IIT kgp. Ask any UG guy from IIT, he knows his name. We need teachers who can inspire young raw analytical talent, not some waste publications . I bet very few prof from IISc can actually handle UG talent in a proper way.
Anonymous said...
I can show genius minds without publications. One such person is Dr. Pawan Kumar from IIT kgp. Ask any UG guy from IIT, he knows his name. We need teachers who can inspire young raw analytical talent, not some waste publications . I bet very few prof from IISc can actually handle UG talent in a proper way.
Reply: Yes I agree Dr X is a good teacher and motivates raw talent. Here is my question? Is IIT a BTech school or should IIT contribute significantly on research? Yes, IIT is accountable for research publications and funding to IITs is strongly dependent on that. In IIT system, many Profs talk and teach nicely and their research outcome is almost zero. In future, so called brilliant BTech products would join IIMs for MBAs. Thus, should IITs be called as pre-management schools? If yes, the authorities should cut the fund on research and throw the faculty who publish papers (some may be waste at the cost of tax payers' money).
There is no question about IISc which is a branded research institute.
To Anon above,
IIT...and Research ? You must be kidding :-)
Its a reasonable technical college with exam-oriented students.
Any news on Ramanujan results???
I called Mr. Kohli today. He said that the results have been already sent through post. It seems very clear that they don't want to publish the results in website to avoid issues regarding basis of selection. It will be nice if some of the profs who serve on this committees can share the basis of selection criteria.
I also just came to know that the institute has attached my acceptance of permanent position along with nomination letter. There was a condition that one has to accept either the permanent position or the fellowship. God knows how these guys select the candidates.
"Tendulkar scored some runs against weaker teams (comparable to gaming h-indices by writing survey papers), but he is still a much better batsman than Nehra, correct?"
Not necessary in the academic world. People with 5 publications have been given awards of the highest orders. These 5 publications are not in Nature, Science etc but ordinary journals.
Nehra may have an average of 5 and Sachin may have an average of 50 (equivalent to h-index) but in the academic world, Nehra may become the director and Bhatnagar awardee!
@Anon July 30, 2012 6:13 PM
Do you know where they sent the letters? Did they send them to the nominating institute or to the applicant's (foreign) address? Do they not send emails informing if you have been selected? INSA was so much more modern.
^
No, Dr. Kohli never sends emails informing selections and rarely responds to emails. INSA is certainly much better; they kept on updating me over email even after I declined to appear at the INSPIRE interview one year back.
^
I forgot to mention, they send one letter each to the nominating institute and to the applicant's (foreign) address. There is a chance that one or both of these letters can be lost or not posted, so please inform both these institutes and also keep calling Dr. Kolhi.
Ok I have informed my institute since I was told that I secured the fellowship by Dr Kohli. I do not know if I ever get this to my German address :)
Ok, so best way to contact Dr Kohli is over phone? The anon who called him, what time did you try and was he polite? Presumably he would have many other important things to do than run a call-centre for Ramanujan applicants.
Me too left the institute... Wat a torture !
@Ankur:
"Presumably he would have many other important things to do than run a call-centre for Ramanujan applicants."
-That was funny. But seriously, he probably doesn't, otherwise I would expect him to be more regular with his emails which is so much more efficient than telephone.
Dr Kohli at DST only deals with Ramanujan applications.
Therefore if he is lazy to respond by email, he need to answer the call.
Can anyone tell me what is going on with IIT-Gandhinagar? Its been almost 3 months but there is no activity except saying we are still reviewing it...
@ July 27, 2012 10:54 AM + 2 posts asking about IITJ
I and two others, who were interviewed, got regular offers. Though I know of faculty members at IITJ who are on contract.
One question which I found was totally ridiculous and kind of gotcha was asking me to right C code for non-recursive quicksort. I can do that but it requires more time since now-a-days I do not program that much (I, personally, do not think that such a question should be asked from a faculty candidates). However, I was given around 1 minute before selection committee members start making fun of me. There were many such questions, where I did quite well, but at the end of all such questions, selection committee members ridiculed me.
About director: his attitude was OK during the day and since the offer, it has been mixed with some positives and some negatives. I am hesitant, because I can see the shortcomings of IITs.
@Ankur (since you mentioned why people stay in IITs with such a bad system). I came back for family reasons and with some feelings of working for your country. I believe most of the people are stuck with IITs because there is no better opportunity available in India (no, I do not want to go to South India). It is similar to 80s when government jobs were the only options in other sectors. Now with MNCs around, you do not see the same eagerness to take a government job as engineer.
@anon July 31, 2012 5:57 AM
About IITGn: I am also getting same answer of since March, 2012. In the meantime, I happen to meet a young faculty of IITGN, he mentioned that regular selection committees are called in November or December only. Initially, I did not quite believe him since it sound unbelievable to me, but it seems to be the truth.
If there is anyone who has received a call in the meantime, please respond.
Hi Ankur,
The best time to call Dr. Kohli is before 11 AM IST. I am not sure whether I talked to Dr. Kohli himself. I feel he was not a very nice person to talk to. He always wanted to get off the phone in a hurry without answering the questions in detail. It seems he has couple of assistants who answered in the past when I called him. Probably they could respond to the condidates if he was so busy. But those poor souls might probably be afraid of him in giving details.
It is irony that candidates who have much higher qualification than these babus have to be at their mercy to contribute something to this country by returning from western countries. God save technical education in India.
best
kk
@ The person who got selected for Ramanujan Fellowship
Please let us know when you receive your offer letter.
I don't even know whom to ask now ! The director of the institute or my (previous) apartment people? Will they send negative letters also? Or we have to assume a negative recommendation if we don't get a letter? How about one line e-mail notification? DST is walking (or even running) backwards these days. Screw technology !
I am new to this blog. Though I do not get time to read all the posts regularly still I would like to say that Prof. Giridhar(IISc) has provided an open space for all prospective researcher to express their brilliant mind in different ways. I have a question about research expressed in different performance index.
Q: What does the word "Research" mean literally? Is not it a brilliant mind plays with his/her freedom with very little scope for a longer period ?
I also find in this blog most of the prospective researchers are men (No, do not assume I am against men or feminist) and spending their quality time to improve research quality in India. Certainly, in recent times many many brilliant minds are going through a lot trauma because they are not able to satisfy their brilliant thought into product form with a heavy package and looking for an academic institute to settle down also showcase their talent in publications. My intention to post a comment in this blog to all respected brilliant and talented researcher and also professors how does this blog help to solve all the problems mentioned other than publicly knowing that Mr./Mrs X is not only the victim of being a prospective in some IIXs....or some.
regards,
@July 31, 2012 9:28 AM,
Thanks for sharing your experience about IITJ.
I am a bit scared now, after hearing that they are asking to write C codes.
I am not all doing any SW programming. Do you know if these questions weigh much to select a candidate ? The positions are meant for people who could be good for R&D (and strong intellectual ability), not in programming. These questions are asked during campus interviews during 3rd yr B.Tech interviews. Whats your advise ?
@July 31, 2012 9:33 AM,
Really I am in a fix. Do you mean the young faculty of IITGN said that the selection committee meets just once a yr (in Nov/DEC) ?
Its really frustrating for prospective candidates ! apart from them who have already got offers and waiting for multiple ones !! Have you ever called them to know the inside story ?
Thanks all.
Hi, Do anybody has an interview experience with IIT Bhuvaneshwar?
Hows this IIT is doing ?
Thanks
Anon above,
Had a farcical Skype chat at 1:15am at night (US time) ! The interview with IIT Bhuv Director and panel asked me just one basic question in Physics, which I could not recall the answer and concluded that my application is worthless. The "interview" lasted all of 6 minutes.
@ August 1, 2012 8:26 AM,
I feel extremely bad . I can understand the expectation from IIT that we have when we apply from the west after being so highly qualified. Don't be disappointed, some great place is awaiting your joining. My best wishes.
Sometimes I feel helpless thinking of the whole situation.
Anon @August 1, 2012 8:26 AM
Thanks for your reply.
Please do not lose your patience. Some stupid persons got directorship in some institute and they are ruining the future of young talents. They are more dangerous than naxals and terrorists since they wear the same dress like you and me.
@Anon August 1, 2012 2:08 AM
I do not think you need to be scared about anything. I believed that these questions were asked to just to show me that I do not know anything. If they want they can make anyone's interview bad - after all you can not remember or prepare everything in your area. How much these questions weigh - I do not know? I believe the selection committee works on the agenda given by the Director.
About IITGN: Well that is what was told to me, and I did not believe it at that time. However I am in touch with other two people who have also applied to IITGN (the same ones who got regular offers), and they have not heard anything either. The probability that none of us were shortlisted is really small.
Anon,
I recently met two ex-faculties from IIT Gn who quit, mainly reason being the vast amount of admin work they had to do, apart from student counselling, teaching etc plus contract positions for many faculties which led to more uncertainty. No support staff was recruited so faculties are spending all their time in babugiri instead of research, on which their promotion is ultimetly based.
Just wanted to report my experience with DST and Dr Kohli. I spoke to him personally - contrary to what some have said he was very courteous and polite and explained things to me very well. He did not have details but he patiently gave me his PA's (Yogesh Gupta's) number, making doubly sure that I have noted it down correctly. The PA was hard to find yesterday, but another inexperienced sounding girl/lady helped me out with the status of my Ramanujan application. Apparently my application reached after the meeting and therefore it could not be considered in that round. She is not the PA for sure so I guess the lesson is that even if you dont find the right person, just see if you can get whoever is on the line to help you out.
I don't think the office opens at 9AM. I think it opens at about 11AM. No one answered my call before that. Keep that in mind when you to avoid getting frustrated. It may also help to call the PA at 26590599 rather than Dr Kohli himself.
"Just wanted to report my experience with DST and Dr Kohli...."
Thanks Ankur, for sharing your experience and letting us know the PA's contact no. Can you tell me when you had submitted the application for Ramanujan Fellowship?
-Anon8
Thanks Ankur. So did he mention why they decided not to use their website for announcing the results?
I got information that DST has sent letters for Ramanujan fellowship. Neither me nor my host institution received this.
@ DST Ramanujan Fellowship
I called the no and the lady picked up confirmed that my name is considered in the last sitting. But she didn't disclose my result and said that she doesn't have the result with her (and she said Dr. Kohli handles the result). She said those who applied will be receiving letters in the next few weeks.
Anon above,
This Ramanujan fellowship thing is degenerating into a circus - just to get a simple "yes" or "no" from DST, you can see the effort required. Now if you do get it, lets see how many times you need to read Hanuman Chalisa before the money actually arrives...
so many different replies from DST.
I guess we have to wait until the letter is received
"Now if you do get it, lets see how many times you need to read Hanuman Chalisa before the money actually arrives..."
For me, it was a matter of ~20 calls ONLY before the money finally came in for the first year. Don't know how many more calls would be required to renew it for the second year.
Ankur, it's true that Dr. Kohli is polite most of the time; he was impolite to me only once during those 20 calls. But, if he had done everything professionally using the latest technology, he didn't have to answer those many calls from me. One email from him or his PA would have done the job in 5 minutes which eventually took 4 months.
@August 1, 2012 9:52 AM,
Thank for your advise. I Hope they don't ruin my opportunity.
About IITGN, if you (and other two) get any updates please dont forget to post it here.
Just FYI, I sent an email to IITGN yesterday and the same reply came back. Strange !
I received Ramanujan Fellowship offer in last Feb. My host institute said, it can not forward my acceptance until I have joined as a faculty. After I have joined my host (as a regular faculty), the institute now tells I am the first Ramanujan fellow so it will take some time to process the formalities and send.
It does not look like, they can finish the formalities and forward my acceptance till end september. Anyone has any idea, if DST will create any problem in releasing the grant due to late acceptance (7-8 months)?
Thanks.
Hi Anon@August 1, 2012 7:15 PM,
I also called Dr. Kohli and found that my application has been recommended. I am yet to receive the awarding letter from DST as well as my institute. In terms of formalities what does your institute need to do? Is there any additional thing that we need to do from our side. I would appreciate if you could let us know. I have also joined recently as a faculty in an IIT. It seems that I am the first one to be nominated from my institute and they are also not clear how to go about it. I hope the institute would allow me to avail the research grant and do not create any issues.
Best
AP
I did not ask anything about the website. My application reached around May 1st week I think, but I am not sure. The next meeting has not yet been scheduled. I guess there will be a 6 month wait before those results come out.
Also, for results, the right person to talk to Dr Kohli himself. But about more complicated things - such as did my application reach in time for the meeting, was it considered for selection, etc - the PA's have all the details.
One last thing - it appears the clerical staff there struggles with spoken English, so stick to Hindi to the extent possible.
Why are there no replys or comments by Prof. Giri on the issues or on his academic output for so long?
Faculty applicants or new faculty of IIXs are now too worried to settle and they are in dreams. They should give serious thoughts of remarks by Prof Giri and associated comments on Indian academics. Otherwise, we need to answer their frustrations after 5 years and some of the earlier posts would be repeated!
Dear Prof. Sriram (IITM),
Dose IIT M recruit faculty once in a year? Is there any new advt. coming for a next round of selection?
Thanks.
-BS
@ Prof. Sriram:
I am also interested in applying at IITM for faculty position. Please let us know the next advertisement date. I heard that probably its going to be in Feb 2012. Am I right?
Thanks
Did anyone in the forum get a interview call from IIT Bhubaneswar recently (chemistry/biology) ?
If yes, then kindly share the info.
IITM has an annual calendar for permanent faculty recruitment with offers scheduled to go out in July. So, approximate dates can be taken as ad will come out in March, closing date will be in April, call letters will go out in May, interviews will be in June and offers will be made in July.
The current cycle has ended and offers sent out (a few have joined already). The standing advertisement will be opened soon. Departments will process applications received against standing advertisement and recommend for visiting offers which will be made approximately in October, January and April.
@ prof. Sriram,
Thanks for the info. It really useful.
I have 2 questions in this context:
1) When is the standing advertisement going to be out for consideration ?
2) For example, If, I have applied in one of the dept requesting for a visiting professor position, more than a month back, then will the offer for this position be made by October ?
Thanks a lot.
"They should give serious thoughts of remarks by Prof Giri and associated comments on Indian academics"
What are these remarks and comments?
Dear Prof. Sriram,
Would you please tell me what is the date of the next meeting to select a candidate for visiting (tenure track) faculty position ?
Thank you.
Any news about the results of DST-INSPIRE faculty scheme, 2012?
DST INSPIRE 2012, The results are finalized and approved by the apex committee. It is now with the officials who may release it soon..
@Ankur:
Many of us returned to India because of the family situation. We were unaware that IIXs were so political and regarded research as an extra curricular activity and they were primarily excellent undergraduate teaching schools.
Having come back, you have to bear with gritted teeth or smile when you are called an useless person because you publish and do research.
iit_prof
Does anyone knows anything about the candidates selected for DST-INSPIRE Faculty, 2012 (Sub Area _ BIO-MED)??????????? How many candidates have been selected???? Eagerly waiting for the results..........
Dear Prof. Sriram,
Would you please tell me what is the date of the next meeting to select a candidate for visiting (tenure track) faculty position ?
Thank you.
@ prof. Sriram,
Thanks for the info. It really useful.
I have 2 questions in this context:
1) When is the standing advertisement going to be out for consideration ?
2) For example, If, I have applied in one of the dept requesting for a visiting professor position, more than a month back, then will the offer for this position be made by October ?
Thanks a lot.
http://dsanghi.blogspot.in/2012/07/iit-gandhinagar-1st-convocation.html
What he does not mention is that eight faculty were thrown out last year from IIT-Gn. Several have left this year.
Of course, I am not allowed to post this in his blog because all comments are moderated and no anon comments are allowed even after moderation.
I have already posted "The standing advertisement will be opened soon. Departments will process applications received against standing advertisement and recommend for visiting offers which will be made approximately in October, January and April." Departments use their own methods to recommend visiting faculty appointments - most require the candidate to make a presentation by visiting or at least by Skype. After the department recommends, these are considered by a Board sub-committee which meets approximately once a month and finally, the offers are approved by the Board of Governors which meets once in 3 months.
Thank you Prof. Sriram
Hi All,
Anyone having got any seminar/interview calls recently from IIT Hyderabad ? I am tired waiting for it....I asked a faculty about 2 months back in the dept I applied and he said that the seminar process will begin in next months time..But since then no response form them.
Please advise.
@Anon August 6, 2012 5:00 AM:
Trust me IIT-Hyd sucks. One of the most unprofessional IITs that do not even acknowledge the receipt of faculty application.Just look into the Biotech dept. Most of the faculties are mediocre.
Yes, I think IIT hyd is working not as expected. I think they are mostly advised by the Director and faculty has little or no influence.
Did anyone receive letters for Ramanujan? The DST office says it posted the letters but nothing is received by me or the host institute?
@August 6, 2012 9:46 AM and August 6, 2012 2:56 PM,
Thanks. Then what is the point of advertising faculty positions in the webpage (standing adv) !!
This process of finding the job at IIT is really frustrating at times......dont even know what is going on..on the other side
Anon above:
Standing advt = bull
A little info. I applied to IIT BBS in first quarter of 2011. Guess what till today I don't know the status of my application. God bless Indian Academics.
Adding yo your info above:
I applied to IIT-Indore around 3 months back but have no response from them yet.
I guess, all was a waste.
Can someone who has experienced the working atmosphere, tell me what is the problem ? If they dont want to recruit then why advertise and claim shortage of faculty.
@Anon August 6, 2012 8:41 PM
I applied to IIT Indore may be 10 months back. All I have got is an acknowledgement which is 9.5 month old. Director want to hire people from Mars or junkies whose next 5 year in academic can be predicted.
Why is there no move by the senior scientists to stop the rot in Indian academics? Everyone says that India is spending more money on research these days, but how would it improve the research output by the people working in such an unprofessional system?
I understand that this blog has now become more like a crib-book without any solution in sight. As long as people remain scared of the Directors and hide under anonymity, I don't think any change will happen!
"Why is there no move by the senior scientists to stop the rot in Indian academics ?"
You might as well ask why there is no move by senior politicians to stop the rot in Indian polity. People who have the wherewithal to bring about change are most invested in perpetuating the current system.
Is there no faculty association (many foreign universities have) to raise such issues about below par system (about research, hiring, working condition etc) where the concerned faculties can actively contribute/discuss to an association for the betterment of the system (thus increasing speed, transparency and independence) ?
To all those who have tried various IITs have been let down by their lethargy, I would suggest you do give IITB a try. I know for certain that in cases where they like a candidate and the candidate may have a two-body problem, they are proactively reaching out to spouses of the candidate to entice both to join IITB. Many faculty there certainly seem to be of modern thinking. They are very quick and professional and are very aware that people have only finite time.
@saswata, I agree it sometimes feel like a crib-book. But if you look at the other side, it helps to share the problems faced by children's of lesser gods. When no one is listening our pleas, atleast we have this forum where our fellow colleagues can understand how we feel.
A IITB Phd, Looking for a job(5year postdoc exp by now) for last two year.
I verified today again about the Ramanujan fellowships
and the secretary said that my name was recommended
and the letters were posted and should receive them by the end of this week. If not he asked me to call next week again . The process continues ....
@ August 7, 2012 8:27 AM (IITB Ph.D and 5 yrs post-doc):
You are right. But tell me something, is it really extremely difficult to find a job in IIT as a faculty ? Actually I am an aspiring candidate so I am getting worried by knowing that so many people have been waiting..to find a job there.
Thanks.
Saswata above,
"As long as people remain scared of the Directors and hide under anonymity, I don't think any change will happen!"
Unlike you, most people are unwilling to end up as martyrs to the cause. They've got more pressing family issues at stake. Change will happen at a glacial pace over your lifetime, unless you believe in miracles or revolutions...
^
"Change will happen at a glacial pace over your lifetime"
Backward changes or forward changes?
One example of a backward change: Ramanujan fellowship results used to be published on DST website, and now they have stopped that as well!
@Saswata-
You have job in your hand. You may play as you like. Some of us are aspiring for faculty position in IIXs.If director knows our name, do you think he is going to hire us?
^
Director neither hires nor fires you. Hiring is done by a mostly-external selection committee of which the Director is a member. Firing is done by the Board of Governors of which the Director is a member.
Once you are hired, you can say the same argument that your promotion depends upon the Director and so you shouldn't protest against wrong practices. Once you are promoted to a professor, you can say that being a Dean or the next Director depends upon the Director and so you shouldn't protest against wrong practices. Finally, once you are a Director yourself, you can say that continuing as a Director may depend upon the political leaders and so you shouldn't protest against wrong practices.
So, let me know when you can think of changing the system.
@Saswat,
When you got your Ramanujan grant, did you get your fellowship from the day you joined IIT G or the day they approved your acceptance letter? I believe, there were a few month's gap there.
^
It started from the the month IITG received the cheque, but arrears were given from the day I joined IITG.
I have a general question about the career option in India for a IE/OR Ph D from USA. We are aware of the salary structure, long waiting time after applying to IIXs. Can anybody put some light about the private B-schools, like ISB, SP Jain, MDi Gurgaon etc. in terms of their eagerness for any Ph D from abroad? Is there any underlying disadvantage in joining these pvt instts, who, otherwise pay several times more than IIXs? Thanks in advance for any suggestion in this regard.
Hi All,
Anyone could please comment on IIT Indore. Anyone who had got appointment there. Please let me know, its important for taking a decision.
Thanks.
Do not join IIT indore. Its a rusty place. Director is a bit
scary person. supports only faculty from iitb.
@August 9, 2012 2:08 AM,
I would like to know on what parameters are you judging your statement on. Is this your own experience or heard about ?
@saswat,
Thanks.
But if arrears (i believe, of fellowship) are given from the date of joining and research grant arrives after, lets say, six months, then when will you send your first annual report? One year from the date of joining (as you have already received 12 months fellowship) or one year from receiving the research grant (only after which you can buy equipments or hire people)? Can you please clarify?
@ Ramanujan Fellowship
Finally the wait is over. DST letter reached my institute. And I got a positive recommendation. :)
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article3743238.ece?homepage=true
Anon, thanks for the very illuminating article.
the article is the simple reason i dropped out from becoming a faculty in India.
@RJ I am a IEOR Ph.D. myself. There is a genuine dearth of good quality IEOR departments in India. IIT Bombay has a scholarly and dynamic IEOR department; apart from that one, I know of no other.
Looking at the research coming out of places like ISB, SP Jain etc, I am guessing that these are mainly teaching institutions. ISB in particular seems quite hyped to me; its record does not reflect it to be as serious about research as it claims to be.
What a great relief for IITKGP after 10 long years (2 terms) to possibly get one of the best researchers as their new Director, very soon. Also for IITK. This is in similar line of IISc and IITB. So we all hope that IITKGP will soon restore it's old glory of excellent research output by getting an excellent administrative head who himself is a good proven researcher.
@aug10,2012,9:39 am
grass is always greener on the other side.
I received my Ramanujan fellowship offer letter today. Recently, I have joined as a faculty in member in an IIT. I was told during nomination that I might have to accept either the fellowship or the permanent position. I don't have three year post Phd experience and availing the fellowship and quarters from IIT would be financially a better option to me. I am planning to talk with the administration people. I am just curious to know how is it handled in the IITs that have previously nominated the Ramanujan fellowship ? What are the restrictions or difficulties in availing the fellowship and being the permanent faculty member?
Suggestions from the previous recipients like Saswata and others would be very useful to candidates like me.
Best
KP
I had a question, which is possibly more in the domain of any senior faculty here. Suppose an IIT faculty wants to work on a idea jointly with a faculty in the US. The idea is not overly extensive and as such needn't involve students or postdocs. But the two faculties would need to occasionally travel to each other's institutions for in-person interaction, and would need to travel to conferences. Does any know what options does one have to acquire funding for these needs?
Earlier there was a DST-NSF program of cooperation; but I learnt that it has been discontinued or has become defunct.
@ Ankur above
for occasional travel you could use the CPDA. The main idea when an IIT recruits you is that for initial few years
you show your independent leadership in the field with out collaboration. Once you are well known automatically you will be recognized in the field and can obtain reasonable funding from external agencies.
I guess this works in the same way in the US as well. So try to work hard in the initial years by setting up your own lab at IIT
Senior prof
Thanks, Senior Prof. The CPDA funds are scarce, especially with the rupee weakening, and I would like to use them for expenses which cannot be funded in any other way. Also, I am confident that this work will be seen as my contribution and as a part of my story.
@ All IIT Profs:
1) After a new faculty joins, after how much time is the start-up grant available for the new faculty? Can it be available right on the same day he joins or it takes few weeks ?
2) Can he submit his Proposal with funds requirement/budget justification to his host IIT before he joins ? (I mean to the HOD or Director)
3) What is the mode of spending funds for buying/ordering the equipments to start his lab (I mean does the institute provide Credit card for this purpose or something else) ?
4) Does the new faculty when establishing his lab after joining, has to wait for the start-up funds to be transferred to his institute account to buy the computers for the students and workers of the lab ?
Thanks for the info in advance.
@Saswata,
Ramanujan fellowship letter states after forwarding the acceptance letter to DST, they will initiate process for financial sanction and the fellowship can be started after the issuance of financial sanction.
How long this process takes?
@ Prof. Sriram,
I would appreciate if you can explain your experiences with handling of Ramanujan and inspire fellowships in your institute. Has the IIT-M had any ramanujan/ inspire fellows in the recent past? How is the Ramanujan fellowship being handled in your institute? Are these fellows are entitled to receive the fellowship without the regular salary..?
best
PK
when is the next selection interview at IITK???
@PK asks "Are these fellows are entitled to receive the fellowship without the regular salary..?"
Yes, IITM has created a zero salary appointment titled "hosted fellow" for handling these. These appointments are treated same as visiting faculty appointment (minus the salary). There are some limitations as the appointment is not permanent (so, you have to take on a co-guide, co-principal investigator etc).
Dear prof. Sriram and Other profs @ IIT,
Coul you please reply to the four questions posted above on August 12, 2012 6:52 AM ?
Thanks for the help.
Dear Prof. Sriram,
Thanks for the reply. If the candidate has already joined in a permanent position and wants to avail the fellowship, what are the restrictions? Can he opt for the fellowship as salary instead of regular salary and avail all other privileges like in IISc? Will the IIT regulations allow for this..? I understand that there are few such fellows already in some IITs. Your answer will bring some clarity for the candidates like me. Thank you for your time and help!
Best
PK
@ All IIT Profs:
1) After a new faculty joins, after how much time is the start-up grant available for the new faculty? Can it be available right on the same day he joins or it takes few weeks ?
2) Can he submit his Proposal with funds requirement/budget justification to his host IIT before he joins ? (I mean to the HOD or Director)
3) What is the mode of spending funds for buying/ordering the equipments to start his lab (I mean does the institute provide Credit card for this purpose or something else) ?
4) Does the new faculty when establishing his lab after joining, has to wait for the start-up funds to be transferred to his institute account to buy the computers for the students and workers of the lab ?
Thanks for the info in advance.
Anonymous@August 10, 2012 9:39 AM
Who is the new director of IIT-Kharagpur?. When he is joining the position?
@anon August 12, 2012 11:17 PM
I am a new faculty in an old IIT. Here are my experience.
1) After a new faculty joins, after how much time is the start-up grant available for the new faculty? Can it be available right on the same day he joins or it takes few weeks ?
2) Can he submit his Proposal with funds requirement/budget justification to his host IIT before he joins ? (I mean to the HOD or Director)
Some IITs may allow to submit proposal before you join. But mine did not. However, I brought my proposal ready and submitted on the third day. They sent for reviews (inside the institute) and since it was vacation time, the reviewers were slow. They took a full month to review. Two more weeks were spent on making the final project sanction letter. So in toto 6 weeks to get it sanctioned.
3) What is the mode of spending funds for buying/ordering the equipments to start his lab (I mean does the institute provide Credit card for this purpose or something else) ?
4) Does the new faculty when establishing his lab after joining, has to wait for the start-up funds to be transferred to his institute account to buy the computers for the students and workers of the lab ?
In my IIT (I guess it is same/similar elsewhere), any purchase below Rs 10K can be made off the shelf. For any purchase above Rs 10K but below Rs 10 L, can be done by inviting at least three quotations and making a comparative statement of the quotes and finally buying the least expensive quote. This may take time but that is up to you and your vendors! You dont pay the vendors, rather they submit their bills and the institute transfers their money to their bank account. And any purchase above Rs 10L, you have to have open tender (in newspapers) and this may take time...This procedure is followed for more or less all purchases.
Hope it gives an idea. But you have to ask the august members of your institutes august finance/accounts department. They are the boss!!
Any Idea on faculty selection interview dates at IITK?
@August 13, 2012 7:32 AM ,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply.
1) Regarding your answer "...They sent for reviews (inside the institute)...", does this mean that the proposal can get rejected for start-up funds too ?? I thought start-up grant is automatically provided to all new faculties. Please let me know.
2) As you said, that any purchase below Rs 10,000 can be made off the shelf. Since I am not paying any of my bills does this mean if I have to buy any equipments below Rs 10,000 then the institute right away pays the bills to the vendor ? Is this fund (e.g. x) for buying equipments part of the start-up grant ? so the expense will be deducted from the total start-up (y) grant sanctioned? (y-x)
3) As far as I understand, even buying the computers will have to wait until the start-up fund is sanctioned and the total cost of buying all the computers would be around 2.5 lakhs, hence they would require quotations too. Am I correct ?
I am going to join soon, so you help is sincerely appreciated. Thanks !
1) "does this mean that the proposal can get rejected for start-up funds too"
In principle yes! But in practice never in my IIT. In my case, I had very strict reviews. But they were genuine comments which I should have addressd.
2) This question can be best answered by your institute people. But please dont get impatient to start your lab and work. I had the same urgency and often felt frustrated with slow progress due to buereaucracy. Keep your cool and give a reasonable time to get things going...Say 3-6 months before you start any meaningful research.
3) Yes, Computers have to be bought following the same procedure. Maybe your iit will give you a desktop to begin with.
Free advice - Dont try to change everyone in your IIT in your first month and dont let them change you even in your last month.
Good luck.
@PK, IITM has not provided for the situation where a permanent faculty member wants to stop drawing salary and take the fellowship instead. We do not have anyone asking for this yet. Considering the pros and cons (as I see it), it is perhaps better to give up the fellowship and draw the regular salary instead along with the contingency grant.
Normally IISc is pretty quick w.r.t startup grants. As far as I know there is no review as such.
Regarding building up a lab, I think if one is a little proactive it can be done within reasonable time.
@August 13, 2012 9:09 PM,
Thanks a lot for all the advice.
When you are saying that the start-up fund can be rejected in practice, what are the conditions under which it can be theoretically possible ? If someones start-up funds are rejected then what is the point of Joining as a faculty ? (without finds nothing is possible).IISc has no review as far as I know.
Can you please shed some light on this.
Thanks for all you suggestions.
@August 13, 2012 9:09 PM,
Thanks a lot for all the advice.
Sorry for the typo. I meant " When you are saying that the start-up fund can be rejected in PRINCIPLE, what are the conditions under which it can be theoretically possible ? If someones start-up funds are rejected then what is the point of Joining as a faculty ? (without finds nothing is possible).IISc has no review as far as I know.
Can you please shed some light on this.
Thanks for all you suggestions.
Can Ramanujan fellowship be used for reasonable relocation expenses?
@Prof. Sriram,
Thank you once again for the reply. For a candidate with less than three years post phd, availing the fellowship along with the benefits like housing from IIT would be a financially a better option rather than drawing a regular salary. What are the restrictions in allowing such requests? Apparently, IIT-G and IISc are already doing it that way. I am not sure how is it done at other IITS. After all, IITs are autonomous institutions right?
Best
PK
PK,
there is a difference. IISc has several Ramanujam fellows. I think the number in IITM is less than 2. Therefore, the pressure on administration is different.
iit_prof
So it's dependent on pressure on administration? It sounds like a lazy excuse to me. In fact IITs (including IIT-M) should encourage their prospective faculty to apply for a Ramanujan Fellowship before they leave their postdoc position. At least (if they are not availing the fellowship part) it will give them some flexible contingency money to start their research programs. If other IITs, IISc, IISERs and NISER can allow their faculty to avail fellowship part of RF, why IIT-M can't?
It is indeed dependent on the pressure. For example, when Ramanujam and DST inspire were introduced, people like Giri (and others) took it with the administration to have a clear policy, which is circulated to all chairmen of departments and centers.
How many Ramanujam fellows, DST Inspire and UGC recharge fellows are there in IISc? Compare it with other IITs including IIT-M. When someone applies from these programs, the institute should already have a nice policy ready for them instead of scrambling for policies after the application.
I doubt whether there are clear policies for DST faculty inspire in IITs even now.
Any news regarding DST-INSPIRE faculty results, 2012?
IIT KGP allows its faculties to accept Ramanujan fellowship without losing any benefits (housing, health, CPDA). Instead of creating a zero salary position, the institute pays the salary equivalent to the Ramanujan Fellowship and gets it reimbursed from DST. This ensures a continuity of service of the faculty who still gets the institute salary (but 75 K). This would be helpful when considering for promotion or increments.
At one point of time they even considered to pay the Ramanujan research grant to the faculty from IIT fund and later get it reimbursed from the DST, so that the faculty does not have to wait for arrival of DST money. But this did not happen at the end. They only took care of the fellowship part.
Anon writes "IIT KGP allows its faculties to accept Ramanujan fellowship without losing any benefits (housing, health, CPDA). Instead of creating a zero salary position ...", presumably referring to my previous post. IITM has this zero salary position specifically for those who are NOT holding faculty appointments, so this can be used till such a point when they get regular faculty appointments. We don't have it yet, but it is fairly straightforward to co-ordinate regular faculty salary with the fellowship for those who are already faculty members.
Happy Independence day
Any news regarding DST-INSPIRE faculty results, 2012?
This comment is on IIT-M faculty recruitment 2012..
I like to mention here a couple of
instances which clearly bring up a major flaw in the IIT-M recruitment process. One of two Asst. Professors recruited by different departments happened to be my class-mate in the high school and +2 and the other was a senior to me. Moving closely with them I have complete knowledge of their academic skills. They always struggled a lot to understand even the fundamentals in math and science. Both the guys passed the 10th class with mediocre marks in those subjects and failed in +1 and +2. Eventually, the left the +2 and chose another route to enter engineering, which is considered the easiest and for junk students only. Still, they could manage to get into third class private institutes only utilizing their reservation quota. Through this quota they reached IITs for their masters. I met my class-mate again in IIT. He became one year junior to me in the masters program. In M.Tech. also his sufferings continued as he failed in two courses in the first semester. Obviously, he could not get any job via the campus placements, which forced him to go for PhD in the same institute.
Again, during the course work in PhD program he struggled to manage the minimum requirements and struggled in research producing mere two papers in not-so-famous journals. This is the same case with the second person also, who was my senior in high school and +2.
I am literally shocked after hearing that both the guys became
faculty at IIT-M, where they would mould the brilliant brains of India, leave alone conducting the world class research. These incidents unambiguously reflect the existing pathetic condition of academics at IIT-M. Being an IIT-M alumnus (in fact, many like me) can not do anything, but brood over the academic scenario at IIT-M.
PS: This comment is not meant for saying any thing about Prof. Sriram. I know him personally.. he is a not-so-sweet-speaking person, but, certainly no nonsense administrator. Also, this post is not applicable to any other IIX.
a-concerned-IITM-alumnus
"Also, this post is not applicable to any other IIX."
Why not? In my IIT, they recently recruited a second class B.Sc who passed out with arrears. If you say something, they will say that research ability has no correlation with academic work (this may be correct in some cases but not for these ordinary cases). Then, they will give these people fellowships and deny professors like giri the same. That;s how mediocrity thrives in India.
So far, IITs were keeping away from political appointments but that day is also not very far.
Hello ALL,
I have a request for all the selected Candidates for Asst. Prof so far as well as the existing Professors at IIT. I have read all the comments here so far for selection process and expectations from an ideal candidate but they are all so contradictory and mixed up that it makes me confused. I may have a seminar/interview soon.
Can you please provide some summary of special points (tips in a nutshell) that I will have to keep in mind while appearing for the seminar and selection committee interview ? Any special things that the committee would want to hear from an ideal candidate to facilitate her selection.
Thank you in advance for this immense help.
@a-concerned-IITM-alumnus
August 16, 2012 1:03 PM
I also have some similar experience like you mentioned. There is one guy who happened to my senior B.Tech. class mate. Anyhow he got first div in B.Tech just crossing 60%. He tried GATE examination two times within 2 years and managed to get an IIT. He was so poor in understanding the concepts there. He happened to junior there. With dissertation and some course work, he struggled like anything. After that he continued PhD because of no placements. After completing PhD from there , He joined IITD last year as a faculty. His publications are scarce. I was completely shocked to see him there around 6 months back. Then, I realized his supervisor was BIG.
This is just not the case of only IITM, I think all IITs are same more or less.
@ August 16, 2012 6:14 PM
I think some member of selection committee should have good reputation with your supervisor. Then, you need not to worry all these stuffs.
@a-concerned-IITM-alumnus states "they could manage to get into third class private institutes only utilizing their reservation quota". If these candidates belong to reserved category (SC/ST/OBC), you need to understand that since 2008, IITs have reservation in entry level faculty recruitment. An exemption bill was introduced in parliament in 2009, but did not pass.
Hello ALL,
I have a request for all the selected Candidates for Asst. Prof so far as well as the existing Professors at IIT. I have read all the comments here so far for selection process and expectations from an ideal candidate but they are all so contradictory and mixed up that it makes me confused. I may have a seminar/interview soon.
Can you please provide some summary of special points (tips in a nutshell) that I will have to keep in mind while appearing for the seminar and selection committee interview ? Any special things that the committee would want to hear from an ideal candidate to facilitate her selection.
Thank you in advance for this immense help.
IITs have reservation in entry level faculty recruitment? And no Director protested against it?
I can see two related news-reports, one involving Prof. Sriram.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-06-28/india/27769571_1_iit-directors-lecturers-and-assistant-professors-iit-council
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/iitm-shows-backward-mindset-on-scst-quota/268301-62-130.html
What's the latest status on this?
@iitmsriram - the bill does not compel you to pick those specific candidates which concerned-IITM-alumnus mentions. Are you saying IITM was not able to find candidates better than these even from the reserved category? If so what steps have you taken to attract better candidates?
Anonymous said...
@a-concerned-IITM-alumnus
August 16, 2012 1:03 PM
Reply:
I am not surprised to your post where you stated that third graded people are recruited to IIT M faculty. In fact, it is not true that people belonging to reserved category is bad. I have seen people with forward caste do not even know the abc of research or courses.
Here it goes....Indian academics is controlled by academic Mafia in each stream (Engg to Science). These academic Mafia Politicians/ Faculty need some rich servants who can salute and provide free drinks, lunch, dinner regularly to these Mafias. Later Mafias as selection committee members recommend these third graded faculty for Swarnajayanti Fellowship, Bhatnagar, FNAE, FNASc.......Good luck to Indian Academia!
@Prof. Madras,
Sad to see that you passed the issue of hiring backward candidates to that of reservation policy. I have told you before that there are many faculty aspirants who don't like to apply to IITM due to it's backward administration. Also, the government asks the IITs to reserve posts for backward candidates, but there is an option of not hiring them if they are not good. Why did IITM need to hire these unqualified candidates? As Ankur pointed out, why couldn't IITM attract good applications from the reserved category? Finally, if IITs had objection about the reservation policy in faculty recruitment, why didn't the Directors protest? Are they so afraid of losing their positions that they would agree to do anything that the minister asks them to do?
Sorry, the last comment was meant for Prof. Sriram.
I have responded to a comment made by a concerned alumnus who made specific statements about some (possibly) reserved category faculty applicants, pointing out that reservations exist in faculty hiring at IITs, which many don't seem to know. Directors protested in 2008 and an exemption bill was introduced in 2009, but that was not passed. The IITM selection committees all had experts with excellent credentials (I will try to get the list of experts put up in the applications portal) and they have made a call as to who to hire and who to pass up. I don't think it is fair to classify unknown candidates as backward or unqualified or third rate. I don't believe this discussion trend has anything useful to offer to prospective faculty, so I will not respond to this thread any more.
Prof Sriram,
The worst fear of any applicant is that he is being sold snake oil in the name of a career opportunity; applicants ask questions on all sorts of related matters to put themselves at ease. So long as something factual is being discussed, and not mere rumours or some anonymous slander, I think it is useful.
I understand it is unfair to judge anonymous candidates, but your response to the question asked seems to not do much to ease the nerves of the concerned alumnus. You have merely quoted the rule under which they were hired, but you have said nothing of what IITM has done to ensure the quality of its faculty. For example do you have a system in place to weed out mistakes, if any, you make in hiring? Please remember that credibilty of the institutions is also being judged here. In fact, I have asked concrete questions that can help in assessing the credibility and seriousness of the institutions concerned and have never received a response. I asked Prof Barua about what exactly was Saswata doing wrong in the top-up rule, and I never got an answer. At various times I have asked what steps has IITM taken to attract better faculty or to improve administration, liberalise processes or learn from admin processes of other universities, there still is no answer. In this respect I hope you appreciate that there are other things applicants want to know apart from rules.
It seems no one is bothered for help any prospective aspirant regarding the question posted on "August 16, 2012 8:23 PM" and "August 16, 2012 6:14 PM".
ankur asks "For example do you have a system in place to weed out mistakes, if any, you make in hiring?" Yes and no. If at the time of initial hiring, there is some doubt about the candidate, then the candidate is offered a contract instead of a regular appointment (this is distinct from the contractual appointment that is given on account of less than three years experience). Such contract appointees have to be interviewed by a selection committee again in order to get a regular (permanent) appointment. Though not common, we have had a few cases where the contracts were not renewed and / or the candidates were not successful in the subsequent interview and left. However, if the selection committee did not make a contract offer but made a regular offer, it may not be possible to "weed out".
I usually respond with rules provisions because that is something I am very familiar with. I try not to respond to questions to which I don't have reasonably clear answers. For example, about attracting more faculty applicants, I am aware that we have been trying through alumni contacts overseas, IITM Director has recently toured the US with this as one of the agenda points etc. I don't know more specifics as these were done through the offices of International and Alumni affairs.
Dear prospective applicant, patiently browse through the old comments, you will get all the answers you need.
Why take it out on iitm because sriram is there to answer?
What has IISc done to attract faculty candidates? What has IISc done to weed out useless faculty? Even though it offers a five year contract to everyone, no one in IISc's history has been denied extension of the contract even when they have had 0 publications in five years.
Let us be realistic. IITs are around 500 ranked institutions in the world and are known for their teaching. A mediocre institution even in the US can not be top 10 in 50 years.
iit_prof
I see a trend in some prospective applicants to ask questions without bothering to browse/search the current and older threads. The questions they usually ask about interviews etc. have been discussed more than once in this forum. Prof. Madras even had a separate post on typical questions asked at interviews. Since blogger has a search function, I hope it is not too much to ask an applicant to do a search first before asking questions!
IIT_new_fac
As some of the readers of my post may have understood, my intention is not to say that candidates belonging to reserved categories are less competent. I am only showing concern on how mediocre candidates were picked up in these two specific cases even though the experts' committee were so meticulous while interviewing them, as Prof. Sriram puts it. Definitely there is a severe disability in the system, which badly needs to be refined. Taking only 10 min talk and 10 min interview may not be a good process of recruiting the faculty, who are expected to inspire bright youngsters and conduct world class research.
Prof. Sriram, as an alumnus, a senior administrator and a faculty who is committed to provide the best possible academic environment at IIT-M, you could definitely propose a system of recruitment that your own department follows (once you wrote in this blog that the department invites one candidate at a time to give seminar and interact with the faculty). This can ensure that such mistakes do not get repeated in future.
Anonymous says "It seems no one is bothered for help any prospective aspirant regarding the question posted on "August 16, 2012 8:23 PM" and "August 16, 2012 6:14 PM".
Please look into the blog in much detail you have all answers as to how you need to prepare for the selection process.
All the best
Todays news
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Govt approves bill to set up 20 more IIITs
Press Trust of India | 17-Aug 13:42 PM
New Delhi: A bill, which seeks to give IIITs administrative autonomy and enables setting up of 20 more such institutes, was approved by the government on Friday.
The Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT) Bill, 2012 is set to be introduced during the ongoing monsoon session of Parliament, official sources said.
Once enacted, the legislation, cleared by the Union Cabinet, will confer the status of institutes of national importance on IIITs.
The establishment of each IIIT is expected to cost Rs 128 crore, with the Centre bearing 50 per cent of the cost and the state government concerned 35 per cent. The remaining 15 per cent will be borne by industry partners.
The Cabinet is understood to have allowed PSUs to become partners in establishment of IIITs.
At present, there are four IIITs funded by the central government. These are at Gwalior, Allahabad, Jabalpur and Kancheepuram and are currently categorised as deemed universities.
The plan is to establish one IIIT in every state, the sources said.
SSS
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