Tuesday, August 25, 2009

New pay scales - IITs

Update: Protests at IISc.

Here is a detailed site that discusses the Implications of the new pay scales. The government's response can be found here.

The newspapers that reported that UGC professors get Rs. 10,000 as AGP while IIT professors get Rs 10,500 and thus IIT professors get marginally higher. Professors of IITs in the pre-revised scale were getting 18,400-500-, which did not exist in UGC. Professors of UGC and Associate professors of IIT were getting the same scale of Rs. 16,400-450-. In the new revision, the professors of UGC get Rs. 10,000 as AGP while associate professors of IIT get Rs. 9,500 as AGP. Thus, existing faculty in the same scale of Rs. 16,400 will get more if they are in UGC than if they are in IIT.


It is claimed in many reports that assistant professors with three years experience will get more pay under UGC than those with similar experience in IIT. This is incorrect. Assistant professors under UGC are in the prerevised 10,000 scale and not in the 12,000 scale. Assistant professors in IITs are under the 12,000 scale. The correct statement is that existing faculty in the same scale of Rs. 12,000 will get more if they are in UGC than if they are in IIT after three years of experience.

I think the final implication is this. Initially, IIT faculty were unhappy with what the Mehta committee had recommended (which was much lower than what the faculty federation had recommended). Now, because the interministerial committee has reduced even what the Mehta's committee had recommended, faculty will be happy with what the Mehta's committee recommended !

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

The problem is very simple.
In UGC pay scale they have renamed the designations. Why can't we also rename our designations as follows:
(1) Lecturer/SO Gr.I as Assistant Professor
(2) Assistant Professor/SSO as Associate Profesor
(3) Associate Professor/PRS as Professor
(4) Professor as Senior Peofessor
(5) Senior Professor as Chief Professor

So the problem can be solved without much ambiguity.

Please convey this to the conserned IIT federation who are in touch with MHRD.

Anonymous said...

It seems only IIT professors are unhappy with the new pay scales. IISc and IIMs seem satisfied and they are okay with the derogation that is being dished out to them by the MHRD.

Anonymous said...

IIMs are too shocked to react, it seems. Also, they are smaller faculty bodies to conjure up visible protest. Only IISc is happy! Even if no salary is given, IISc faculty would come to work, guaranteed!
Just being at the IISc is such a big thing.. asking for money or respect in return is obviously Twistian (a la Dickens).

Anonymous said...

The IISc faculty association did meet and discuss the issues involved. Unlike IITs, most of the faculty do not teach, so boycotting classes becomes a joke.

Anonymous said...

I think time has come for the faculty at IITs, IIMs and IISC to unite and protest against the MHRD "babu"s. These "babu"s only understand the language of protest and they won't give the faculty their dues until and unless they are forced to do so.

Anonymous said...

What about IISERS? No news from them! Are the protesting being in the same rank of IITs, IIMs etc.?

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

IIT/IISc/IIM/IISER's should rename their designations as posted earlier. They can recruit directly as Associate Professors
at 37400-67000(P4 band) with 9000 Grade Pay.

old 12000 basic has been mapped to 37400-67000(P4)- Associate Professor (old Assistant Professor), so we can recruit people directly for Associate Professor(old Assistant Professor)

Mapping should be done properly from old(V pay) to new pay(VI pay)

old pay new Pay + Grade Pay
(V pay) (VI pay)

(1) 8000 15600-39100 + 6000
(2)10000 15000-39100 + 7000
(3)12000 37400-67000 + 9000
(4)16400 37400-67000 + 10000
(5)18400 37400-67000 + 11000
(6)22400 37400-67000 + 12000
(7)25000 80000
(8)30000 90000

I hope you will take care of passing these valuable informations to the concerned people. Hoping to get a reply from you.

Anonymous said...

Renaming designations is plain stupid. You can not recruit someone with 1 year post-Ph.D experience as associate professor. Check the qualifications and experience needed to be an associate professor.

Anyway, when did the blog owner become the director of an IIT or an official in MHRD that he can take care of this?

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

IIT/IISc/IIM/IISER's should rename their designations as posted earlier. They can recruit directly as Associate Professors
at 37400-67000(P4 band) with 9000 Grade Pay.

old 12000 basic has been mapped to 37400-67000(P4)- Associate Professor (old Assistant Professor), so we can recruit people directly for Associate Professor(old Assistant Professor)

Mapping should be done properly from old(V pay) to new pay(VI pay)

old pay --- new Pay + Grade Pay
(V pay) ------ (VI pay)

(1) 8000 --- 15600-39100(min 22000) + 7000
(2)10000 --- 15000-39100(min 30000) + 8000
(3)12000 --- 37400-67000(min 37400) + 9000
(4)16400 --- 37400-67000(min 43000) + 10000
(5)18400 --- 37400-67000(min 48000) + 11000
(6)22400 --- 37400-67000(min 55000) + 12000
(7)25000 --- 80000
(8)30000 --- 90000

I hope you will take care of passing these valuable informations to the concerned people. Hoping to get a reply from you.

Anonymous said...

IISc can directly rename Assistant Professor to Director and Director as Cabinet Secretary, That way, it is easy to pay high salaries.

Anonymous said...

the views expressed by various people in this blog seems to indicate that they are direct decendents of Muhammed Tughlaq who asked to print their own animal skin notes, and enjoy!!!

Anonymous said...

Article Published in Nature (india)

see: http://www.nature.com/nindia/2009/090827/full/nindia.2009.278.html

(The author (Dr. Aditya Mittal) is an associate professor at the School of Biological Sciences in IIT, Delhi. He was a member of an all IIT/IISc team, which the Goverdhan
Mehta committee consulted before preparing its report.)
some extracts:
" There is a sense of helplessness among the IIT faculty about the fact that IITs will not be able to recruit quality faculty in the coming years like they did thus
far. It will also be extremely difficult to retain quality faculty. For the record, IIT Delhi has offered an entry level position to less than 4% of faculty
applicants in the last five years. This is as good as the number of students admitted through JEE. This not only ensures quality but also the right work
culture and ethos in a system striving for excellence.
With the current sixth pay commission's 'banding' entry-level IIT faculty in the third pay band and 'grading' IIT faculty into inexplicable academic grade
pays, IITs will be forced to compromise on the quality of its faculty. It will not take much time for IITs to become just another university (or 'deemed' or I dare say doomed) in the Indian sarkari (bureaucratic) system."

Anonymous said...

No country in the world is printing animal skin notes, and could have printed, hold your tongue.

And also various people expressed their views are not the decendents of Muhammed Tughlaq. They are the sons of Mother India.

It is our right to ask proper renumeration for our very high quality education and very high quality research and teaching.

Anonymous said...

Not all IIT faculties are extraordinary. On the other hand there are many world class research workers in UGC universities. Higher pay scales for IIT will cause heartburn to them. Of course, overall iits have higher standards. At the same time they get very good students and infrastructure also. IISC faculties negligible teaching load.
It is also not correct that if somebody has done Ph.D. while working, it is of low level. I have seen many fresh M.Sc. (with NET qualification) or B.E. with excellent results have joined BARC, DRDO or ISRO or university system. They have done world class research there and acquired Ph.D. On the other hand left out backbenchers, who did not qualify any all India exam. or get job, slugged in the research. Somehow they obtained Ph.D., may be under some big fellow in some university or even IIT and had some post-DOC experience abroad (which is not very hard to get). A few international publications came automatically. Many of them are IIT/IISER faculties.
Also IITs, IISERS, IISC have high prejudice for foreign Ph.Ds or post-docs. Even NISER website openly tells their preference for post-DOC abroad (May be Bangladesh, Nepal?) which itself shows IITs and IISc in poor light.
What is disappointing in the MHRD notification is the absence for any incentive for good, meaningful research and teaching. These institutions should be given freedom so that they can offer suitable and attractive recruitment and promotional scheme for their faculties. Also there should be suitable incentives for doing productive research e,g. monetary benefits/faster promotions/research grant etc. can be given based on no. of papers in good journals (as first author), no. of Ph.D.s produced, industrial , environmental or social problems solved, foreign research collaboration or bringing of external funds etc. (for both MHRD & UGC institutions).
SD

Anonymous said...

The Indian School of Mines University (ISMU, Dhanbad) Teachers Association on its emergency meeting held on 28-08-2009 unanimously resolved that all the faculty members will go on mass leave and boycott all the academic activities on 01-09-2009. This is in protest against the degradation of pay structure of ISMU faculty members from that at par with IITs and IISc to that of NITs without any academic audit of the institute and faculty. The faculty members will assemble in front of the administrative block at 10.00 a.m. on 01-09-2009 and take part in a silent procession.
ISMU, which was established in 1926 in the same line as Royal School of Mines, has tremendous contribution especially in mining, mineral, petroleum and energy sectors for the last eight decades. Students passed out from this institute have served with great distinction world over in top positions. There have been strong reasons for conversion this institute to an IIT (http://ismu2iit.org). Its faculty members come through same rigorous recruitment standards as IITs. Now its degradation to NITs, without any stated reason, may lead to great damage to this world class institution. The MHRD, instead of uplifting an institute, is annihilating it which all the academicians should protest.

Anonymous said...

Looks like MHRD would increase the salaries of assistant professors in IITs & IIMs
http://telegraphindia.com/1090902/jsp/nation/story_11440240.jsp

Anonymous said...

Pay nod for IITs & IIMs

Telegraph: CHARU SUDAN KASTURI

New Delhi, Sept. 1: The Centre has agreed to a jump in the salaries of assistant professors in IITs and IIMs, raising prospects of an early resolution of an unprecedented pay dispute that saw teachers boycotting classes.

The government has agreed to hike the starting salary of assistant professors by almost 25 per cent from that stipulated in a new pay regime it had notified earlier this month, top officials revealed.

The decision was firmed up today, on the eve of a meeting between human resource development minister Kapil Sibal and IIT directors to resolve the crisis.

Faculty at the IITs and the IIMs are protesting revised pay scales that snip salaries recommended by a central pay panel under former Indian Institute of Science director Goverdhan Mehta.

The pay regime notified earlier this month also ignores a slew of additional incentives suggested by the Mehta panel to counter the lure of better salaries offered by industry and foreign universities.

Poor salaries for assistant professors, the institutes argued, were at the root of the dispute.

Under the pay scales notified earlier this month, assistant professors were placed at a starting monthly salary of Rs 30,000, in a range referred to as pay band 3.

The HRD ministry has decided that salaries for assistant professors will now start at Rs 37,400 a month, in a higher pay range — called pay band 4.

The academic grade pay — a rank-based increment — for assistant professors will remain at Rs 8,000 a month, as notified earlier this month.

The ministry has not yet accepted demands from the IITs for additional incentives — financial compensation for the years spent in study and research instead of working, or a performance-related incentive scheme.

The salaries notified earlier this month — and first reported by The Telegraph on August 19 — represented the first hike in pay scales for the IIT and IIM faculties since 1999.

On learning about the notification, faculties across the IITs and IIMs protested against the new pay regime, wearing black bands. Teachers at different IITs took turns at boycotting classes.

The IITs last week submitted a memorandum of demands to the HRD ministry, threatening a mass hunger strike on September 5 — Teacher’s Day — if their demands were not accepted.

The IIMs have also formulated a similar charter of demands, though they have not specified any protest action they are planning.

Under current pay scales for teachers at India’s universities, assistant professor salaries automatically proceed from pay band 3 to pay band 4 after three years in service. The pay scales for IIT and IIM faculties notified this month did not include any similar provision for shifting the salaries of assistant professors to pay band 4 after three years.

Teachers at the IITs and the IIMs have traditionally been paid higher than their counterparts at universities because of the higher demand they command in the corporate market.

Anonymous said...

what about IISc and IISER?

Anonymous said...

hello,

The statement "Professors of UGC and Associate professors of IIT were getting the same scale of Rs. 16,400-450-." is not correct. There is part of the scale after the "450-" that is different for the two. The UGC Professor scale continues beyond where the IIT Associate Professor scale ends and becomes like the IIT Professor scale (with 500 increment and ending point of 22400). Thus, with some logic, one could assert that scalewise, IIT Professor > UGC Professor > IIT Associate Professor. The proposed grade pays are 10500 > 10000 > 9500. The Delhibabus try ...

Anonymous said...

I personally feel that it is a drama enacted by MHRD babus to somehow decrease the intensity of the higher pay burden first by announcing funny pay structure that is not acceptable even at the first glimpse and then giving an impression that this time they will get far superior pay scheme than that of the UGC pay scheme. It is called FLOWERS ON EARS in Telugu.

Anonymous said...

Prof. Madras,

I read a comment on a different blog suggesting that a lower grade pay translates to lower entitlements in govt jobs. I have recently received an offer from an IIT and I was wondering if you would clarify how the AGP translates to entitlements. For example, if I have a lower AGP, does that mean that I have to take the train for official travel as opposed to taking a flight? What other things might I miss out on if my AGP is low?

Best regards!

Giri@iisc said...

Yes, lower AGP means lower entitlements.

If your grade pay is less than 5400, then you can not travel by air. If your grade pay is between 5400 to 8900, you are entitled to travel by economy class by air. The government has not notified what happens if your grade pay is between 8900 and 10,000 because the grade pay of 9500 was specially created for associate professors in IITs. If your grade is above 10,000, you are entitled to travel by air in business class. I assume you have got an offer from IIT as a faculty, in which case your grade pay would be higher than 5400 and you can travel by air by economy class.

Though I am entitled, I do not travel business class at all. A cheap fare ticket by indian airlines from bangalore to delhi is 7000 by economy and 52,000 by business class. Why waste this money? Well, that's just my opinion.

Regarding other things you might miss out is that if you draw more than 10,000 grade pay, you are entitled to A/C taxi; otherwise, you have to travel in an non-A/C taxi. Again, I consider it as a non-issue because whenever I travel, people send me a car and I normally do not say that I will not get in unless they will put on the a/c. Again, just my opinion.

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Prof. Madras,

Thanks a lot for answering my question on AGP and entitlements. Yes, I will be joining as an Asst. Prof. and it is nice to know that I will be able to fly with my AGP. I have been told that initially, I may have to make a few trips to New Delhi to make a case for funding, and flying (doesn't matter what class it is) is a much more efficient way to travel.

Best Regards!

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor:

Thank you for your posts, I check your blog at least twice a day for updates. I'm a different anonymous from above, but am in the same boat -- I'm joining an IIT soon as an Assistant Professor. I'm extremely excited about it, and reading your blog gives me my daily fix.

I was not aware that the AGP decides entitlements such as mode/class of travel. I was wondering if the Rs. 5400/- "cutoff" for air travel will be different in the sixth pay commission. I'm assuming that quite a few people will move into the 5400+ grade pay band now -- will they all be entitled to fly?

I understand that this does not affect Assistant Professors since I assume (hope?) they were in a flying grade even before the revisions to pay scales, but I'm just curious.

Giri@iisc said...

AGP was a term introduced in the sixth pay commission. Therefore, the entitlement to fly if your AGP is greater than 5400 is a result of the sixth pay commission.

Previously, before the revision, people earning more than 12800 basic were allowed to fly economy class.

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the clarification, Professor Giridhar.

On a personal note, on one of your posts you said to another posted -- "don't call me sir," and that resonated with me too. I've gotten used to it by now, but when I started working a couple of months ago (not at an IIT), it felt very awkward being called "sir." And not just by students, but even by people who are twice my age.

What do you like being called by students?

Anonymous said...

Latest on Pay scales

A delegation of All India IIT Federation met Mr Sibal. Mr opned the meeting with a remark why did you guys went to street. It seems the issue of 40% cap on AGP 12000 can not be removed. It seems MHRD has made up their mind to bring some of the provisions of UGC system.

IISc people are wise not to join the agitation started by the IITs as nothing is going to happen.

mittal said...

Dear All,
Please see this link where it is suggested why IIT faculty should be paid good salary
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pay-it-forward/514743/

-R C Mittal

BSP said...

Revised pay notification for centrally funded Technical Institutes is out today. See the MHRD site.

Congrats to Assistant Professors. It was possible due to the Protest by IIT Faculty members.