Saturday, September 4, 2010

M.E./M.Tech Admissions

IITs have a problem in filling up the seats reserved for SC/ST/OBC students. IISc seems to have a different problem. 591 seats were offered for M.E/M.Tech admission for 2010. Only 322 students joined. Some departments, in particular, showed a sharp decrease of students joined to students offered. In the general category, the number of students offered admission in aerospace, chemical, civil and materials engineering was 22, 17, 33, and 25, respectively. The numbers who joined were 6,3,5, and 11. Thus, some departments showed only 16% acceptance rate...I think it is a matter of concern, though many apparently do not think so.

31 comments:

Khalil Sawant said...

And what are the reasons for the problem ? :)
Do the students find IISc very tough (considering that it closes above IITs on GATE score) ? :)

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor,

I am doing MSc Engg first semester at IISc and I have preferred this over IITB, K M-Tech programs.

I know that this year many of the toppers went to IITB leaving IISc... The primary reason is 1)placement... ( They get information from IISc student that IISc is a pure research institute and not to come to IISc for placements.)
2) If someone is interested to do PhD abroad, the past record of IIT B and K ( considering my department that I dont want to reveal), its comparable with IISc... or even better )

3) The course work at IISc is tough, wherein IITB, its just like an undergrad course.

4)IISc publishes only a single offer list. (If I am not wrong).
IITB undergoes a cyclic process till the last seat. IITK gives offer to about 100 candidates out of that 30-40 will join.

5)A general feel among fresh B Tech students that IITB is better for Technology education and IISc for Science

I think these are some of the thoughts of a fresh graduate when he compares IISc with IIT B especially ...

you can see many of the gate toppers preferred IITB over IISc this time.

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Anon,

Appreciate your candidness. I completely agree with all your points. Point #2 is probably applicable to all departments.

However, still the question remains as to why it has affected primarily the general candidates and not the students of other categories.

Thanks again

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Please change the background color of this blog.
I cannot read any comments because the of the weird combination of the text color and the background color.

Anonymous said...

Giri@iisc

Sir, your new blog color scheme makes it difficult to read. Usually white font on black-background or the other way round -- although not fancy -- are always readable. I request you to revert to your old design.

Giri@iisc said...

Please let me know whether you are able to read the blog now. I was working on it when you must have visited.

However, if it is still unreadable, please let me know.

ansumali said...

I have heard from a few students that scholarship offered at JNCASR this year was substantially more than IISc due to difference in scholarship offered by two different agencies. We are suspecting sudden rise in student numbers at JNCASR (eng students) might be partially due to that. Although, I am not sure about correctness of this difference and possible correlation with increased student number this year at JNCASR, my conjecture is that this shift again provides good reason to hike PhD scholarship in India to a reasonable label of 25-35K INR.

Anonymous said...

it looks great now!

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Ansumali:

We are talking about M.E/M.Tech students. There is no drop in the acceptance rate of research students. Actually, the research students know that IISc will also increase its scholarship to the DST level retrospectively in a few months.

Thanks

Giridhar

Giri@iisc said...

Anon at September 4, 2010 6:23 PM:

Thanks for your comment. Actually, I was doing exactly the same thing by modifying the template provided by blogger. When the modifications are going on, people who land on the blog see things they should not see :-)

I use two non-standard browsers (Chrome and Opera) for all my work. It looks fine in these. If you encounter problems with standard browsers (Explorer and Firefox), please let me know.

Thanks again for your comment.

Giridhar

Ankur Kulkarni said...

Hi Prof Giri,

The page one lands on after clicking on "Comments" has the (usual) background for reading appropriate. But I think the page one lands on by default on giridharmadras.blogspot.com, which lists all recent posts, is not, in my opinion, as pleasing as it used to be. The background is gaudy and blinding. It is also a bit cliched, making your blog look like a wannabe science blog. In comparison, I think your earlier versions had an understated-ness that was more fitting to its thoughtful content.

Regards,
Ankur

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof,

I am ME student @ IISc, I was surprised to find many in the top ranks, opted for IIT-Bombay over IISc.

One reason: Considering the minimum Bombay placement figure is about the average IISc placement figure(!)

But more importantly looking at the flexibility of course-work, and the diversity of research in Bombay (not to mention perks like better collaborations with foreign university etc), i can see why doing PG in Bombay is just as reputed.

The least iisc could learn form iitB is how to conduct admissions, the online process at Bombay simply spectacular, every thing was online, even paying of fees was through internet banking. Up-to 3 lists were announced to fill every possible seat.

more importantly, something which the profs don't know is how gate rankers select which Institute to join. "Social networking, i,e the reviews given by existing IISc students on social networks".

>exceptionally poor and utterly humiliating hostel conditions for ME/Mtech/MSc(engg) freshers

>limited-flexibility in courses.

>lack of undergraduate-level-courses which one can audit to over gaps in ones mathematical background etc

>lack of great placements. no foreign placements on campus!

>M.E course hardly feels like an "engineering" course.

> young faculty with "stellar" PhD are great for guiding research students but useless for 'teaching'/'course-work' !

here is what i predict:
next year the figures are going down even-further.

most of us honestly advice aspirants to join Bombay/go-abroad over iisc.



P.S: about why other categories were filled.

many people in categories who could not get into Bombay got into IISc, because many top category students dint even apply for IISc(one reason is the notion of "its impossible to get into iisc even with category, so no point in applying" , the other was the very short deadline for admission forms) So many lower ranking category students who applied got lucky, and dint want to waste a chance since they could not have got into Bombay's 1st list anyway.[one has to look at Bombays first list announcement dates and IISc fee submission dead lines to get the full picture]

Regards,
Anon_xyz

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof,

The IISc is experiencing strong competition from IITB. and IITB is 50 years younger to IISc... Many fresh students prefer IITB over IISc knowing the fact that they will be called "Matka" and treated secondary at IIT... Is there something really wrong with IISc system ??!!! is this the reason why they are starting a BS program now ?!!

Regards,
Anon.

Anonymous said...

Prof. Giri,
The recent comments no longer appear on the front page.

Anonymous said...

@Prof. Giridhar,

I have following.

1. There is no dedicated placement officer.
2. Alumni support is minimal. I don't know who is not loyal to whom.
3. There has to be continuous and sincere effort through out the year in finding employers.
4. When some decision is made by a body, it should be based on majority opinion. I feel that is missing.

I personally feel people are happy to do hard work. They are disappointed at the end as they are not getting good job.

I don't know why the institute is not going for a dedicated placement officer.

I remember director asking researchers to be like monks. I agree with him, but institute should have minimum responsibility for those monks' future.

I hope IISc will take necessary steps to resolve these issues.

Following IITB in making thinks automated is a must.

Hoping for better IISc,

phdstudentiisc

Anonymous said...

@Prof. Giridhar,
I think IISc is better off getting fewer but interested students. We have many here at IITB and they are here, as you see from student responses, for placements. The whole MTech program is nothing but a glorified placement program. The learning component is completely missing. The IITB system is pretty easy on students, grade inflation is very high and the project requirements are abysmal. Last year I took 6 first year students and pushed them hard to get me something "NEW" from their work. I gave them papers, presentation, notes, etc., so that they can catch up with some background. One of them left writing to me that he cannot do the project as he cannot think. He just wants some ANSYS project (I don't know what the hell that means). The others are just not interested in doing any real research. Now in the third semester they are going to spend some 2 months to prepare for placements (I don't know what is preparing for placements means - they told me they need a month to prepare resume and a month for GDs). Then, there will be Mood Indigo and then Techfest and at the end they will graduate without doing anything (because the grades in a project don't count for placements and if we stop them from graduating then they won't come to us for projects anymore). I will have to explain to the department why they failed to do as if it is my job to do their work and their report. The main problem with the institute is some professors who are too soft and almost don't care what the student does for their projects. My last years hard work resulted in me not getting a single student (TA category). The reputation being I push hard. Also, there is subtle pressure from the administration to graduate students as there is limited hostel accommodation (Thanks to Arjun Singh and Kapil Sibal). As for the freedom to take courses is concerned, I think IITB is pretty good at that. But, the students take advantage of this freedom in choosing courses that given free grades. Some of the young faculty in the department are trying to tighten the nuts and bolts to be strict in both courses and projects. This semester will be our first attempt and we "hope" some research will be done by these students this time around.
K

Anonymous said...

I am agree with Prof. K. I cannot comment on why category students have joined but not the regular students. However, I have one thing to say: this year, the number of students from Andhra Pradesh has reduced. Many of these students (not all) want to do something simple and get a job. None of them are interested in research.

So, getting few interested students is better even if you do not fill up the seats.

BTW, I am a faculty in the science department but this is what my friends tell me.

Anonymous said...

IIT-B is a well known institute who do a lot of PR and marketing. It is an IIT (atleast in my area) which is very applied in nature. It is also a very industry oriented IIT. So placements woul naturally be better than IISc. M.E and M.Tech guys prefer either good jobs (along with easy life in ME coursework) or an conduit to land them in top US institutes after graduation. While in area of going abroad, IISc maybe marginally ahead, the prospect of good jobs adds another option which makes IIT-B very lucrative.
However IISc should give proper attention to this problem.

Anonymous said...

Publishing multiple admission lists might help filling the seats. There are many students in the general list (yours truly was one of them in 2004), whose rank is a bit low and hence dont get admitted to the ME program.

I think along with the GATE rank and percentile the absolute marks scored should be made available as well. The onus will then lie on the department to decide upon a cut-off - no student (in a given category) would be allowed in if they dont meet the cut off). Student scoring above this can be admistted, based on their rank.

For instance if 50 students clear the cutoff, the first list could offer seats to 30 (assuming there are 30 seats). If 11 turn down, the second list can have offers made to students in th 31-41 ranks and so on.

This might be some way of ensuring most seats get filled up, yet IISc does not have to accept students who dont meet the basic expectations (standard wise) of the department faculty (and at this stage I would not even go into any discussions on whether exams like GATE, JEE etc are a good indicator of a student's success in the programs they are admitted to).

As to your other question - why this is more prominent in general category - I can only venture a guess. By and large, after BTech, the general category students do much better in placement interviews. Therefore, a much larger proportion of top ranked GATE qualified general category candidates have a plum job on their hands, which, given the socio-economic situation in India, they are loathe to give up; instead they forsake a seat for ME / MTech etc.

Again this observation is based only on my own batch during BTech (way back in 2004). Since then, for last 6 years, I haven't been in sync with undergrad scenario and I dont know what might have happened this year.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof and all the guys who commented on this blog.

Many things were correct but all are the part of problem. I have done my post graduation from IISc. So I have some points to share with you all

1. This year a big number of students were called to join IISc (no doubt) based on only and only the GATE-2010 rank, not any other year's rank (usually 2 years' rank/score) (which was happening till last year.). This may make a big difference in acceptance of admission.

2. This year IOCL also used GATE score to recruit around 200 ppl. The departments which suffered the lack of acceptance of offers from students are those, which offered courses directly (not after taking interviews). Mainly M.E. of Civil, Chemical, Materials, I think. If you see CEDT or CPDM you will see the difference.

3. Placements!! If you compare IISc and IITs. IISc seriously needs a better placement officer. An officer who is strictly not a prof. The main reason for this is very simple, The prof (also placement officer) will have his own research/courses etc and will not have much time to be in touch with several companies and also he would be partial to his own dept to a certain level. He should be talking to the HR of companies directly. A placement officer who is not prof have to be equal to all the branches and would be in touch to all companies HR. His job for the whole year would be to make new contacts and better placements. Second thing, I have noticed in IISc CSIC is only worried about Engg branches, not for Science ones. huge mistake!! Science guys would make IISc very proud in industrial R&D easily.

4. In IITs, companies are coming specially for B.Tech guys to recruit in a good number and for them recruiting M.Tech guys (so called "matka") are bonus. For a company it doesn't matter to recruit a guy from IIT-B or D or K or IISc. After they would be at the almost same performance level in industrial training (after joining that company).

5. No doubt. IISc has to look forward to meet and encourage alumni for many things. I remember a survey in IISc mentioned about around 38 scientists in NASA. The placement officer could more dig into it make contacts in global companies. (which was been done by placement co-coordinators year by year, till last year at least).

Well many things, but have to do something about it soon by authorities.

Anonymous said...

@prof giri

sir,

i think this year iisc hasn't made multiple lists keeping the hostel situation in mind. i think next year once the new 7 storey hostel is done, the intake will be back to normal.


also, the other reasons why students don't join iisc is because of the tough coursework. courses in iisc are generally much tougher than any of the iits (this is the feedback of students who did their Btech in iits and ME/MSc/PhD in iisc)


the disturbing part is students are doing their ME/MTech keeping placements in mind, rather than having an inclination for research(or in many cases no inclination for research).

Why at all go for a master's degree if specialization is not your goal??

manju said...

as an alum i found the iisc campus to be very dead. most people dont interact with people from outside their own labs (even in their own dept). the academics quality is undoubtedly very very good, but students are human too. there is ABSOLUTELY no support system from students otherwise.

the placement office is dismal. while iits and nits have well-oiled networks and processes in place, companies dont even know about iisc.

also, in my dept i observed that none of the ME/MSc students got into the best univs in the world. however, undergrad students who worked as project assistants somehow made it to these best places.

the world is shrinking due to the web now. iisc cannot maintain its stellar reputation through press releases when their students are talking otherwise (it doesnt matter if your guide is a globetrotter in all the best conferences when the student has to struggle to get funding to attend a conference in delhi too). on the other hand,MTech students of iitm/b/k regularly go on exchange programmes all over the world.

many of my own classmates advised their juniors not to join iisc and opt for mumbai/kanpur instead.

unless the iisc admins look to take care of students, they will continue to attract the best faculty, but the better students will head in other directions.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof.Giri & others,
I am an alumni of IITM (BTech) & IISc (ME) and working in an indian research institution for more than 23 years.I regularly read the comments given in this blog and I appreciate you for maintaining such a wonderful blog - discussion on many current topics - requiring attention from someone!

In 2010, many new developments took place, which , perhaps, are the reasons for poor response from top rankers to IISc.
Some of them are:
1) The IT sector is nolonger considered "dream" by many students owing to low salary, long working hours, fear of loss of job etc.
2) This has made the GATE very very competitive.The number of students writing this exam has increased significantly.
3) Many public sector companies, like IOCL etc promised good salaries and attracted many good students.
4) Institutions like BARC, CSIR Labs (NAL,NCL,IIP,NEERI), started their own MTech Programmes with higher stipend and assured job
5) The BARC allows its trainees to do PG at all IITs but not at IISc

6) there is a general feeling in indian industry - including the so called research institutions- that they need more Btechs and not PGs.Hence top students opt for job and settle rather than do their PG.

These are the reasons I feel for t he current state of affair.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof Giri,
Thanks for sharing. Placement condition is pathetic in IISc. I did job after my graduation. My package was 6.5 lakhs. After Master's from IISc, I am struggling to get even the same package. Now, it's really tuff to justify my decision of leaving a good job and spending two years at IISc.

Now coming to research, I agreed that IISc is better in research as compare to IITs. But it's no where near to top universities of the world. IISc have good research facilities and goof faculty. Why after Masters' people feel go abroad for PhD. Even some student prefer U.S. state university over IISc. Money can't be only reason. Why IISc is not able to compete with top universities?

rajat 3rd sem said...

am pursuing Btech Degree from IIIT-ALLAHABAD,ECE branch,final year

Here only IT people get placed(no scope for ECE),but i am totally interested in ECE

I belong to a middle class family,i thought i can't afford for MS in abroad and also i have not a great profile for MS in abroad.. just CGPA-8.00

So i thought about Mtech, to be in tech. field and for opportunities in Abroad

last year i gave GATE-2010(not seriously),and i got 97 percentile,So i think i can do better this year

But my aim is to get a job in abroad(either by Phd or by MS),or getting a good job in india(which is not possible in ECE from my college),and i also don't wanna get placed in any PSU

So please suggest me whether i can get admission in any good(top 15) university or not

Or either i should go for Mtech programme(IISC and IITB)....Through which i may get a job in india or go for PHD from abroad after that

IMPORTANT:-

One more thing i want to know for a good US university(for Phd),either i should opt IISC Banglore or IITB



I am totally confused ,

So please suggest me a good way to proceed......

Thanks in advance......

Anonymous said...

Looks like placement is the reason for students to choose IIT's. This implies that these students are studying not for their intellectual curiosity, but for money. If that be the case, let us stop worrying about the reduced student admissions, because, atleast we need an Institution that nurtures genuine students, and not the banias!

Anonymous said...

Why is it wrong to worry about a job and future? Intellectual curiosity can be satisfied by many institutes like IIT, not necessarily by IISc

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor,
I am a student who was offered admission and did not take it up but joined a private company as an employee (a decision that I quite regret now). I am posting here, for a view from the category of students under discussion.
I got an all india rank of 5 in GATE 2010, and was very enthusiastic about joining M Tech at the prestigious institution. However I received very strong feedback from students pursuing M Tech in IISc that placements are poor and that I should be taking up admission only for a career in purely research. This was the deterrent factor as I already had a job in hand, through campus recruitment and giving up the job seemed like narrowing down my future career options.
I also know quite a few other people with similar ranks as mine who either joined universities abroad or took up jobs with a high pay scale.
Now I feel today that it was a bad decision to have given up the chance @ IISc. But I think that students in the years to follow will continue the same trend.The reasons that I have seen in me and my peers are primarily these - low placements (implying limited scope for career), low stipend amount and an attraction to the foreign universities.

rooparam said...

Hello friends,
Me doing MTech from IISc in Computation Science. i also got offer from K and B in CSE. but i opted IISc (best decision of my life).
I think Tata never cared whether MTech/ME students will get better placement at IISc or not. And neither do Faculty here. They have better thinks to do here (research?). It's a great thing, cause learning is great here (at least in SERC). If u think there is more talent in other inst. checkout ranking of Indian Programmers in Topcoder. (only 5 redcoders, and none of those from so called elite institutes like IITs IISc). Sorry if i hurt someone's feelings .. :)

Anonymous said...

@Rooparam: There haven't been Red topcoders from india till now because students from IITs/IISc if ever start competing on these websites. Now slowly the awareness has increased at least among the undergrads...so expect an increase in number of red coders in coming years..:) And moreover, Color in topcoder is not much related to Research aptitude of a student..its more a practice/dedication to competitive programming as such..

Anonymous said...

Hello,I have just completed my BE from jadavpur university. I secured AIR-1 in gate-2011 in IN trade. I got Microlectronics from both IISc and IITB but I opted for IISc as my teachers and other seniors suggested. I have a job at IOCL in my hand from on campus and the package is nearly 8.2 lpa (excluding tax). I am also from a very poor family. At this time it is really a big confusion for me which one to choose for a better future and career as well. Please help me out. I have only few days left to decide.