Pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc
This is a pinned post for prospective faculty to IITs/IISc. Please, please read this site and the old posts, here, here, here, here, here and here, here also. There are over 5000 comments and replies to these comments in these posts.
3,339 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2801 – 3000 of 3339 Newer› Newest»Some sad stories coming from IIT Guwahati.
https://www.change.org/p/indian-institute-of-technology-guwahati-fairly-investigate-tushar-yadav-s-tragic-death
https://www.change.org/p/dr-pinakeswar-mahanta-dofa-iit-g-dr-p-mahanta-withdraw-the-case-against-dr-s-shannigrahi-asst-prof-cse-iit-g
https://www.change.org/p/professor-gautam-biswas-director-iit-guwahati-unceremonious-resignation-of-prof-saswata
https://www.change.org/p/iit-guwahati-improve-the-curriculum-and-teaching-at-iit-guwahati
@anon, why all these pointers to change.org petitions? Especially the first one, which is from a couple of years ago and has little, if anything, to do with prospective faculty. I can find no news or reports about the other incident which seems to be the subject of the remaining three change.org petitions. Most interesting, since Saswata posts on this blog. Is there some pointer to where I can find some kind of report of events? At this point, reading the change.org petitions, one has to speculate and there are lot of gaps. I can find nothing at IITG related web sites / FB etc etc.
More sad stories from IIT Guwahati.
https://www.change.org/p/arvind-kejriwal-not-a-suicide-but-a-murder-in-iit-guwahati
https://www.change.org/p/ministry-of-human-resource-development-avoid-wastage-of-seats-in-m-tech-programme-in-iits
http://iitproblems.blogspot.in/
When are the interviews slated for the chemical engineering department in IIT Madras?
Anyone received interview calls from IIT Ropar in last 2 months?
Lots of people here who seem to be interested in joining one of the new IITs. I hope you do your research very thoroughly before you join one. Their initial conditions are different enough that their trajectories are likely to diverge widely in the coming years.
Also, at most of these places you can kiss the idea of relying on good grad students to further your research agenda goodbye. You are likely to have to do most of the heavy lifting yourself. Lastly, many of these new IITs are starved of faculty and your teaching burdens might be considerable.
-IISc AP
I am short-listed for interview in Mechanical Engineering at a new IIT and will appear through video mode. This is my first selection committee interview.
Can anyone brief about type of questions and how to prepare?
Any tips will be very helpful
Thanks in advance.
Hi all:
Just thought of asking some questions to senior professors here. I appeared for Associate Professor interview in a new IIT after working as assistant professor in the same IIT for last few years. I have lot of publications, external funding, 2 Ph.D.'s graduated etc as my achievement as AP.
In the interview, the committee members instead of asking questions on research and knowing about my contributions at this new IIT, kept on asking questions from undergraduate book. Had the questions been from the UG syllabus, I would have managed, but the panel member went outside the course structure and kept asking questions from there. Completely forgetting my research contributions, teaching and heavy administrative contributions as well....
Eventually, I heard I got rejected.....anyone there to comment on what is going on....making judgement on the basis of 2-3 questions that too asked from outside UG course structure is something I didnt understand...
For the anon at June 18, 2016 at 6:35 PM.
I have recently joined in a new IIT as well, though probably not the same as yours. I can't comment on your specific case, but here is a related observation that I have made in the past several months.
When the new IITs started, they were quite desperate to hire faculty (as well as their reputation wasn't much to boast of) and therefore the criteria for selection was rather low. My department hired 3-5 people in every cycle in the initial days. The number of faculty in most departments has now reached a steady state more or less and they now hire just 1-2 people per cycle. We can observe a big gap in the quality (measured by academic background, publication quality, and general intelligence and smartness) of the newest 2-3 people and the oldest 5-6 people.
Logically speaking, that might be a reason that the selection committees are now much more cautious in giving promotions to those people.
Another simple explanation of your predicament might be just plain old departmental politics. Who knows?
Anyone awaiting IIT-Hyderabad Computer Science Department interviews? Any news when shortlisting and interviews to be scheduled?
Hi,
Anybody got offer letter from IIT Tirupati or Palakkad?
Thanks
Any comments on what to expect in interview for assistant prof at IIT?
To Anon above (regarding interview questions at IITs)
Expect graduate/masters level basic questions. They will begin with asking questions from something (lets say from your current research topic) and then drag you to the very basic questions on related topics. If you are appearing personally, they will make you use the whiteboard/greenboard as well. If you could not answer a question, the interviewers sometime give you hints as well on the kind of answers they are expecting.
They don't want you to remember the all the things (formulas, eqns...) from your graduate/masters level but they expect you to know the atleast the basics of fundamental subjects of the department you are applying.
Be prepared to be interviewed for about 45-60 mins.
Be calm and start brushing up the fundamental subjects.
Thanks a lot for the interview tips!
Anyone awaiting IIT-Hyderabad Computer Science Department interviews? Any news when shortlisting and interviews are to be scheduled?
Typically how long does it take to hear about the results after selection committee interview for assistant professor at IITs?
Your blog is very informative. Nice post.
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Typically how long does it take to hear about the results after selection committee interview for assistant professor at IITs?
To anon above:
Typically successful candidates are informed of the decision within a month. You can write to the HoD to know the results. If he/she is not replying after repeated mails then probably you are not selected.
Anon above thanks for the answer.
I do not know about the process.
Does it need the BoG meeting or can director office/institute decide by itself?
I have been recently offered position at a new IIT and yet to accept it.
I have 2 years of experience post PhD and 5 years of industrial experience
in a reputed company post MTech.
While deciding my basic only post PhD experience has been considered.
No additional increments have been given for post MTech experience.
It will be very helpful for comments on -
Whether it is the standard procedure as per GoI or depends on IIT?
Is it advisable to raise the issue now or possible to raise it after joining?
Any adverse effects?
Also how much maximum time I can ask for joining from abroad?
Thanks in advance
Dear Anonymous (July 5, 2016 at 7:53 PM)
If they have offered you a full assistant professor appointment (AGP 8000), it means that they have considered 2 years of your post M.Tech experience. Some IITs consider 1 year of post M.Tech experience is equal to 6 months of post PhD experience. Also, it matters where you have worked, if you have taught in some place, they may not consider it as experience. If you have worked in an R&D they may consider. In any case, I suggest you not to raise this issue, because any change in your offer letter needs lots of paperwork from Registrar, Director, and it may also have to go the members of selection committee. Its unlikely that they will process it. If you argue and fight for, it may go completely against you in IITs. In fact please note that in the first year of probation they can terminate your job without giving a cause for termination. Coming to your second question it is best to join as early as possible, usually they allow for 2-3 months, but you can request the Head and Director for at most 6 months time.
I have posted a big reply and miraculously it disappeared. Any way I suggest you not to raise this issue of pay. Try to join within 3 months time. Best wishes.
Anon at July 5, 2016 at 7:53 PM
Considering of pre-PhD experience for increments depends on the individual IIT. Some do and some don't. However, this has to be discussed before the offer letter is generated. Since the offer letter is ratified by the BoG, it is almost impossible to change it after it has been given to you.
However, I would still suggest you to at least register your protest regarding this issue.
I asked for 6 months time when coming from abroad which was easily granted. I have seen other people taking even more time. It depends on your HoD to a very large extent.
@anon has explained pay fixation / consideration of experience nicely. It is upto the selection committee to give weightage for this. IITM gives upto two years time for joining. However, as pay is fixed at the time of interview, subsequent experience gained will not reflect in the pay - so, delaying by anything more than a few months will result in "reduced" pay. One also has to ask, if you are planning on joining a year or more down the line, why apply and interview now? You should really be applying next year, no?
Thanks to anons above and Prof Sriram for replying!
I have been offered offered joining time of 3 months and I want to seek 6 months. I hope it is reasonable one?
Lastly at no point of time I was asked about my salary expectations. So I didn't get a chance to mention that and at interview I didn't knew if I would be selected.
@Prof Sriram: when you say "subsequent experience gained will not reflect". Does that mean that the experience acquired after selection will not be counted towards 3 of year post PhD? Will the remaining 1 year only count from date of joining?
Dear Anonymous, did they offer you a regular assistant professor appointment (AGP 8000)? Or a contract one?
If its a contract one, you join as soon as possible. Because you need to get 3 years of regular assistant professor experience to get into PB4 and for applying for associate professorship.
Also don't raise the issue of pay, In IITs it is considered very rude if you start fighting with the director from day 1, just forget about it.
Lately I am seeing that getting faculty position in IITs have become extremely competitive. So grab the offer and join as soon as you can.
Best wishes,
Thank you for your suggestions.
It is contract position.
Regular AP happens after post phD 3 years. So if I join late how does it matter?
I mean I am working and the experience accumulates. right? Excuse me if I am wrong.
@anons, my comment was only to point out that the offer will generally remain frozen (though some IIX are able to update the offer administratively; doing this poses some other problems, I will not get into that here). Of course, experience credit will be given for subsequent things. As an example, say, a candidate had 3 years experience at the time of interview and was offered 30000+8000 as the pay. If the candidate deferred joining by two years, the starting pay would still be only 30000+8000. PB4 movement subsequently would depend on whether the candidate was on 8000 grade equivalent post during the delay period. Some IIXs upgrade the pay and re-fix administratively at the time of joining, but that is a mixed bag that will help some candidates and can have an adverse effect on some other candidates.
Yes, it is rude (to say the least) if you start fighting with the director from day 1, but one can raise the issue of pay without fighting with the director. Raise it at the selection committee interview (the selection committee has the power to recommend any pay), or get in touch with the dean before hand to let the director know that you have some pay fixation expectations. As a broad practice, higher pay will be given for years of experience, but not for higher performance in the same number of years (that will get you a step up in promotion).
@anons, my comment was only to point out that the offer will generally remain frozen (though some IIX are able to update the offer administratively; doing this poses some other problems, I will not get into that here). Of course, experience credit will be given for subsequent things. As an example, say, a candidate had 3 years experience at the time of interview and was offered 30000+8000 as the pay. If the candidate deferred joining by two years, the starting pay would still be only 30000+8000. PB4 movement subsequently would depend on whether the candidate was on 8000 grade equivalent post during the delay period. Some IIXs upgrade the pay and re-fix administratively at the time of joining, but that is a mixed bag that will help some candidates and can have an adverse effect on some other candidates.
Yes, it is rude (to say the least) if you start fighting with the director from day 1, but one can raise the issue of pay without fighting with the director. Raise it at the selection committee interview (the selection committee has the power to recommend any pay), or get in touch with the dean before hand to let the director know that you have some pay fixation expectations. As a broad practice, higher pay will be given for years of experience, but not for higher performance in the same number of years (that will get you a step up in promotion).
@anon I agree with prof Sriram that you should have raised it at selection committee. Now just forget it.
Prof Sriram and anons above thanks a lot for the clarifications and advice.
However, as I already mentioned that I was at no point asked/offered opportunity to talk about pay fixation.
Maybe this will serve as a guide to future aspirants.
But I still doubt if someone can talk about pay fixation
until he/she knows if one is getting the job.
Thanks again for all the help!
Anon at July 9, 2016 at 1:56 PM whose experience wasn't considered.
At the risk of sounding rude, let me ask if it isn't one's duty to find out the details about the job they're applying for. I see a lot of clueless people on this forum who apply for faculty positions to IITs as if they're applying for admission through JEE/GATE.
Few of my friends (including myself) did some detailed research about the procedures on this forum and elsewhere, before we returned from abroad and joined IITs.
As prof. Madras has mentioned on this blog - there are thousands of comments spanning several years. All the relevant information is present there if you're willing to spend some hours and search for it.
@anon above Thanks.
Regarding my experience being not counted the amount of ambiguity even in the official prescription differs among IITs.
New IIT: Assistant Professor 3 years teaching/research/industrial experience post-PhD
Old IIT: Assistant Professor : At least 3 years teaching / research / industrial experience, excluding however, the experience gained while pursuing Ph.D.
Another New IIT: Work-experience a) after Post Graduation but before joining PhD and b) experience after PhD is counted; periods spent pursuing Post Graduate degree and PhD are not counted
Source: http://www.iith.ac.in/dofa/profiles/pdf%20files/IITH_Orientation_Package_FINAL_1_Jan_2013_new.pdf
So my investigation into the sources including past posts on this forum (research?) could not help me reach any conclusions. Maybe I am not a good researcher!
Hope the director doesn't know that! :)
but in all these cases, pay-fixation happens at the time of interview - and that is already well documented in the comments of this blog.
Dear Anon,
Please take it easy and stop arguing. There are some topics in the thread which doesn't have a straight forward solution.
Best wishes,
My apologies. I'm the one who made the first rude comment and comparison with JEE.
Anyone awaiting IIT-Hyderabad Computer Science Department interviews? Any news when shortlisting and interviews are to be scheduled?
next week
Anonymous at July 14th 2016 7.26PM, you mean to say that faculty interviews for Computer Science Department are scheduled next week? or we will get to know if we are shortlisted for interview next week?
To Anonymous at July 14th 2016 7.26PM:
Do you know the schedule for other departments? I am more interested about the department of Physics.
Thanks.
Hi,
Does one need to get the postdoc experience certificate officially from University in order to claim the postdoc experience while applying to faculty positions at IITs.
I am finishing my first postdoc of 2 years and moving to another university for an year or so. Is my postdoc offer letter/contract papers sufficient to claim my experience?
Can you share your experiences?
Thank you.
@Anon July 19, 2016 at 3:21 AM
It is better to have a letter on the official letterhead of the postdoc supervisor.
Sometimes letter/contract papers are sufficient but there will be a problem if they
in a language other than English. This having a letter is the best option.
@anon, July 19, 2016 at 8:21 AM
Thanks a lot.
Can anyone comment on when is the next Ramanujan Shortlisting expected?
Or what is the approximate cut off date for submitting application for next round?
Anyone awaiting IIT-Hyderabad Computer Science Department interviews? Any news when shortlisting and interviews are to be scheduled?
Dear Prof. Sriram,
I can see on IITM website that one round of faculty hiring has just finished in most of the departments. Can you let me know if the next round happens in six months or in one year? I just missed the bus for this round.
Thanks
P_anon
Do IIT faculty contribute to EPF or is it only to NPS?
IITs participate in NPS. IITM's next round ad will come out around October.
Anyone awaiting IIT-Hyderabad Computer Science Department interviews? Any news when shortlisting and interviews are to be scheduled?
Thanks Prof. Sriram
P_anon
Dear Prof Sriram,
I recently got an offer from the IITM at the assistant professor level and I plan to join at the end of this year. I was wondering if you can shed some light on the current waiting period to get the faculty accommodation (I have read the new faculty survival guide on your website..thank you)?
Thank you.
Anyone awaiting IIT-Hyderabad Computer Science Department interviews? Any news when shortlisting and interviews are to be scheduled?
I am asking a slightly off-topic question...
Admin people at my INSPIRE Faculty host institute say that they will cut Rs. 9000 (30% of 30,000 basic salary according to them)from my 80K award amount as HRA if I avail campus accomodation. Upon protest, they asked to get clarification from DST otherwise they will deduct this amount. The effective amount after taxes will be about 62-64K !!!
Can someone share their opinion? What is happening at other places??
@INSPIRE anon, I think your host institution is being needlessly mean to you. There is a difference between HRA not paid and license fee for accommodation. The INSPIRE fellowship amount comes from the INSPIRE grant, not from your host institution. If they want to withhold the HRA component, they can do so and leave the money in the grant, they shouldn't take it. Else, it becomes charging you license fee (as charged for others) + HRA, which is unequal treatment compared to others who are getting housing. The reason they may want to do this is that if you don't avail on campus accommodation, INSPIRE does not give separate HRA .. But still, I think your host institution is being hard on you.
Any news on when will the next round results for Ramanujan fellowship be declared? I see on serb website that it was last declared in May. How many times a year these results are declared?
Is there any spouse quota in remote IITs? For eg. I see too many spouses working in IIT Mandi which is not very normal in other IITs...The surprising things are even spouses who has science degrees are selected in engineering departments as faculty which looks unusual...why is this trend?
I was an INSPIRE FACULTY till last month and now I have got a permanent position in central university. Kindly let me know weather my INSPIRE faculty experience will be taken into account in giving increments of initial pay fixation or not?
Kindly provide possible links to claim my experience.
By the way lot many thanks for running this blog...
@ anon on August 23rd...
maybe you are correct...i see there is not much of merit in the selection process...IIT's advertise the story that it's difficult to get good faculties...but on the other hand you see too many anomalies in the selection process...
The problem in recruitment in India is multi-layered. Not many brilliant people will return to India after their initial training. (Exceptions exist but let us look at the general trend).
People who return to India are
1. Highly inspired, enthusiastic to make a change and they do.
2. Family reasons.
3. Not getting a position in the west.
4. Not sustaining a position in the west.
Candidates who are really brilliant will get into top tier institutes like IISc, TIFR, IIT(Old). Some brilliant candidates will consider Geography too. For example, even though IISc is attractive but since they are from Assam, they will join IIT-G.
Now coming to other institutes. They have a limited choice of brilliant candidates. Generally, they get average candidate CVs. You can check scores of faculty hired or even yours from this site http://pipredictor.com/
So if they do see a promising candidate they will try their best to hire. I have seen a person with an offer letter from IISc with an offer letter from IIT X Y Z. A very high percentage of candidates have better halves who are also Ph.D. holders but may be at a different career stage (very early to apply or not enough publications). Institutes in west or even in India generally offer a position to both members to retain the talent.
Now talking about IIT Mandi. If one member is at IIT Mandi and other person is also qualified, what are their options in Mandi? Sit at home? Join a high school close by or some random college? Though I have not looked into who was hired, but I believe IIT Mandi did an excellent job by giving an offer to both. I am sure they are not relative of some one at IITMandi. Perhaps the government should think about a good locality before opening an institute so that family members have a better chance of finding a job. In Bangalore or Delhi other halves can apply to 100 other institutes. But this will be counter productive as people in Himachal, Arunachal or Vindyachal deserve the IIT too.
I am not commenting on you hire my PhD student and I will hire your PhD student as a faculty. That is a different topic all together ;)
Ciao
@ Anon on Aug 23 and Indian scientist
I have not verified this issue about spouse recruitment at the institute you mentioned.However, i am concerned about the statement by respectable indian scientist.
It's understandable that a highly qualified spouse cannot sit at home in such remote locations. However, can IIT make a compromise in their IIT - JEE selection process to admit students from rural community or students who cannot afford such coaching facilities ? Similarly, when people question the issue about the quality of SC/ST students (in the name of merit) why such compromise is only for faculty spouses?? Perhaps, you have mentioned that IIT's generally get sub-standard faculties (exceptions do occur)...so, i believe two sub standard faculty (spouses) can only the situation even worse (again most cases, exception do exist here too). Most of the time such community is not possible to create a healthy academic environment...When you argue that compromises can be made on faculty selection (no issue if the spouses are of high calibre), then there are lot of such issues IIT's need to compromise on.
@ regarding some previous posts on faculty selection....
What the selection committee thinks - People with a degree and experience from US or Europe are talented and the ones who have done all their work in India are inferior to them.
This SLAVE MENTALITY is present in all the top institutes of the country. However, only NEPOTISM can overcome this mentality and does so in several cases.
What do people like me (with good marks, good publications and NIT,IIT degrees and also with awards like INSPIRE faculty), who have worked only in INDIA and cannot go abroad due to many reasons (family responsibilities being the primary one) get for staying in their own nation - rejections from even new IITs citing frivolous reasons like research area not matching or being inter-disciplinary, faculty not required at present and what not.
Why I am complaining ---- A person with foreign experience with less publications (although high impact ones and as second, third or fourth author, which he will not be able to publish from INDIA,--- another topic which can be debated at length) and no funding of his/her own (as compared to the 35 lakh research grant of INSPIRE award which I am luck enough to have) gets selected in my same discipline and research area.
Exceptions are there, people with influential guides and some other jugaad get positions even without foreign experience.
Anyways, I am marching on because scientific research work gives me the most pleasure and the positions will come eventually. I just hope that it is not too late for me...
thanks for valuable information it is very helpful...
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anonymous sept 2 2016 10.50AM
I agree to few of your concerns,
It is no longer agreed that only meritorious candidates are recruited in top institutes,
Look into the Inspire, Ramanujan, Ramalingaswamy and UGC-FRP faculties profile who works in universities and other institutes and they can match with any of the IIT or IISC recruited faculty. Some times they are better and otherwise.
But the view still exists that faculties in top premier institutes are highly meritorious than any other in the country.
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Regarding spousal hiring. I think Indian Scientist has mentioned some good points.
Having faced the hiring procedure a few years back and now involved in it in an IIT, I can say with surity that this highly depends on the location of the institute. Institutes in big cities (Bombay, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Delhi) clearly state that no compromise is to be made for spousal hiring. Both of them apply independently, and if selected, are taken.
Established places in small locations (KGP, Kanpur, Roorkee etc.) will also make no compromise but they will work hard for the spouse's job. For e.g., HOD of one spouse may talk to HOD of other spouse and the director to try and discuss the case holistically.
New places in small locations (Mandi, Ropar) will get very average candidates' applications anyway. So they may try to attract these candidates by easing the procedures of spousal hiring.
It all comes down to basic economics of demand and supply.
Regarding foreign vs Indian work experience:
You can find a lot of anecdotal data (though no proper scientific study) that people who have done PhD in a top university abroad and then a good post-doc tend to be better researchers. Individual cases may, of course, vary - but I'm just stating the general trend.
If the profiles of candidates are as follows:
Candidate A - BTech from IIT, MS + PhD + postdoc from top university in US/Europe.
Candidate B - BTech from a state university, MTech+PhD from some IIT. Postdoc from US/Europe.
It is a no-brainer that Candidate A has received much better education than Candidate B. Now their knowledge/ productivity/ scientific maturity is further assessed by the selection committee.
It has nothing to do with a "Slave mentality" as you put it. Just accept the fact that there are 150-200 universities in the world that are better than IISc and top IITs. Learn to call a spade a spade.
It seems the previous comment wasn't posted for some reason. Here it is again...
Regarding spousal hiring. I think Indian Scientist has mentioned some good points.
Having faced the hiring procedure a few years back and now involved in it in an IIT, I can say with surity that this highly depends on the location of the institute. Institutes in big cities (Bombay, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Delhi) clearly state that no compromise is to be made for spousal hiring. Both of them apply independently, and if selected, are taken.
Established places in small locations (KGP, Kanpur, Roorkee etc.) will also make no compromise but they will work hard for the spouse's job. For e.g., HOD of one spouse may talk to HOD of other spouse and the director to try and discuss the case holistically.
New places in small locations (Mandi, Ropar) will get very average candidates' applications anyway. So they may try to attract these candidates by easing the procedures of spousal hiring.
It all comes down to basic economics of demand and supply.
Regarding foreign vs Indian work experience:
You can find a lot of anecdotal data (though no proper scientific study) that people who have done PhD in a top university abroad and then a good post-doc tend to be better researchers. Individual cases may, of course, vary - but I'm just stating the general trend.
If the profiles of candidates are as follows:
Candidate A - BTech from IIT, MS + PhD + postdoc from top university in US/Europe.
Candidate B - BTech from a state university, MTech+PhD from some IIT. Postdoc from US/Europe.
It is a no-brainer that Candidate A has received much better education than Candidate B. Now their knowledge/ productivity/ scientific maturity is further assessed by the selection committee.
It has nothing to do with a "Slave mentality" as you put it. Just accept the fact that there are 150-200 universities in the world that are better than IISc and top IITs. Learn to call a spade a spade.
concerning the comments about the spouse recruitments and INSPIRE fellows being ignored, this clearly shows that IIT selection committee rather looking only at the merit, is considering other factors. This proves that many things happening in selection process is highly political..In other words, some candidates are already pre-decided. Clearing selection committee seems just a formality.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/42-in-kharagpur-roorkee-39-in-bombay-faculty-short-across-iits/
Looking at the old article, i dont believe in the notion that top performers get into old IITs while the new IITs only get mediocre applications..if there is a systematic and time bound selection process like IIT Madras, then certainly i believe institutes will get good candidates.
about IIT Mandi..informally i get to hear from reliable sources...out of the existing faculty strength excluding visitors, around 30 % is unmarried or newly married, 25 % are faculty couples and 15 % of faculty spouses without PhD are either doing phd or involved in administrative jobs..30 % of the faculties are not involved in anything...In short around 50 % of the faculty spouses have tenure jobs or jobs which provides consistent income...
for the anon who mentioned about the slave mentality, the shortcut for you to get a faculty position in IIT is date a IIT faculty...you have 50 % chances to get into IIT...
And this is an elite institute of India...Such a shame for the country...
It doesn't matter where you get your B.Tech from, if you have an M.Tech from IIT/IISc and PhD from IIT/IISC/Good foreign universities followed by 2-3 years of postdoc from good universities, your changes of getting a faculty positions in IIT are quite high. If you don't have a B.Tech or M.Tech from IIT, your changes are very grim. Just glance thru the faculty profile of good IITs you will hardly find people who have B.Tech and M.Tech from non IITs (may be 2%).
@ Anon September 11.22 am
Looking at your comment you argue, Candidate A with IIT degree + MS, PHD and Post Doc from US/Europe is better educated and have higher chances for getting hired. You must belong to this category.
Certainly, if such candidates are hired, then naturally people who do their M-Tech/PhD under your (so called better educated IIT faculty's) guidance must have significantly matured and scientifically competent skills. What is the ground breaking innovation came from the works of IIT faculties? Phew...nothing.
When you say preference is given to candidates educated in US/Europe, that's again a painful story. Universities in Singapore, South Korea, China, Japan infact Canada have much much better rankings than IITs. This clearly proves "slave mentality" in hiring process. IITs hire faculties to teach for US/European companies not for the benefit of Indian society. Atleast. you guys produce good labours for the benefit of US and some IIT guys go to work in banks.
PS: you are claiming faculty...do you have the guts to do a simple scopus search and list how many Nature and Science publications produced by IITs (without any foreign collaborator) in last 10 years atleast...And compare with other developed countries ? I am afraid the quality of research in bangladesh, Thailand and Vietnam is better than IITs (Individual exceptions occur in IITs too like Prof. CNR Rao)
If you visit many web pages in IISc, you will find many faculty who are not BTech from IITs doing very well and publishing better than many faculty having BTech from IIT.
Look at the record of the blog host..Look at the Bhatnagar award winners
I see the blog has gone back into mudslinging mode; I don't believe such comments are of any use to prospective IIX faculty (or maybe they are, who knows).
Interesting to see how theories are based on informal information etc. I can share IITM faculty hiring profile of last few years for those who care to know about it. IITM is making approximately 30 offers every year with close to 50 - 50 split between Indian PhD and foreign PhD. Used to be foreign meant almost exclusively US, that has again become close to 50 - 50 US and others. A small number (around 5%) are hired with no foreign exposure, typically in humanities, management and sciences but not exclusively so. Foreign exposure is usually good and most candidates with foreign exposure exhibit higher productivity than those without, so it would only be natural if the hiring shows same trend, no? And about jobs for spouses, in the "new" IITs which are in smaller towns, this is something that has to be provided for as part of policy; good candidates may otherwise opt for sub-optimal jobs in metros in the interest of collective satisfaction. Of course, qualification and fitness for job are required, but some willingness to consider would not be out of place, no?
Dr. Rajesh Srivastava has been kept suspended for more than 3 months at IIT-G for sending some emails that angered the administration. Think carefully before joining IITs.
@ Anonymous -- September 2, 2016 at 4:20 PM ---- regarding Sep 2, 2016 post....
Sorry, I cannot divulge further details as I am yet to get a regular position. I don't know who is reading this blog and don't wish to be on the receiving end of some influential person's wrath.
I thank the blog owner once again for having the option of ''anonymous'' ...
To all others.... I stand by my comment on slave mentality... And personally it is satisfying for me to get support from certain quarters, I am sure there are others who have had a similar experience and know that it is true.
A significantly large fraction of researchers and academics still believe that people with foreign exposure are 'better''. Nothing can be done in this regard as of now. We researchers, working in India, have to work harder still to compete with the ''better'' ones.
Prof. Sriram,
I love your insightful comments, and also appreciate that you are a sane voice of reason in this ocean of contempt, i.e the comments on this post.
I love your stats (both formal and informal). As a prospective candidate for faculty positions in IIX, I was wondering can you provide some stats on the mentality of the faculty members at IIX.
For example, how many of them have a positive attitude vs defeatist? How many just find faults within the system, without actually contributing nothing in turn? How many think that IIX are not "world class", so they refuse to do "any" research?
These stats would help the prospective candidates choose the right institute. In my undergrad institution (neither new nor an old IIX), I would says that ~20% of faculty were extremely positive, ~50% had a live and let live attitude but unfortunately 30% were perpetually bitter.
I find similar stats in the Indian postdoc community at top US universities. Most of them are smart, but unfortunately a giant majority has massive inferiority complex. I think, unless most faculty members have a positive attitude, India cannot become a scientific power.
Many thanks in advance !!!
Ok... so let me see, what i understand is:
Candidates with foreign degrees have received a better education, so they are more suited for positions in top institutes... Ok, agreed.
So, the students of these smart individuals who have studied under them in India are not so suitable. Is it the shortcoming of the student or the mentor/guide who has received foreign exposure?
@Prof. IITMSriram
Your opinion and also the opinions of other senior members are highly valuable to the people who are just starting their career. The intention is not mudslinging but to highlight some issues which we cannot discuss face to face with seniors.
It is high time that IIXs start trusting their own PhDs and post-docs as much as they trust the foreign-returned ones for faculty and research positions.
Agree with anon above.
IITs have to shun the mentality of looking away from their own PhDs.
I can say this from experiences of my friends who did their PhD in IITs.
And these same set of people complain when good students run away to do PhD outside the country!
Lack of trust in their own alumni reflects lack of self confidence.
Moreover, now a trend has started beginning with IIT Ropar and
now IIT Bhubaneshwar where the directors are going to do interviews outside the country.
This without giving a chance to the pool of talent available inside the country!
How difficult is to interview some good candidates within India?
Also having done my PhD in Europe I have found significant bias towards US Universities.
Not to mention the sacrosanct criteria of crossing 35 years even if you have accounted those years with some meaningful experience.
I feel people do not understand difference between anecdotes and evidence and expect to be hired in top IITs. Examples can not form generalization!
It's no-brainer, and I would always put my money for the following hierarchical order of screening:
1. IIT B.Tech, US MS+PhD, post-doc not required for engineering branches.
2. NIT B.Tech, IIT M.Tech, US PhD+Postdoc.
3. Local B.Tech, IIT/NIT M.Tech, IIT PhD+Postdoc.
Off course there are exception to this rule, and that's why there are additional steps during the recruitment steps (e.g., seminar, interviews) to ensure outliars to this trend can be given appropriate consideration. Now, you can shout as much you can but as a scientist, this trend is well supported by evidence. I have seen very good PhD candidates from IITs/IISc, and they do get hired by these institutes as faculty members.
I agree that people should be encouraged to do PhD from IITs and when we see will gradually see improvement in PhDs from India, this trend can be redefined. But until then, I would make my decision based on the current evaluation.
so post doc experience is not required if you are BTech from IIT!
where are the emoticons rofl
It's always difficult to objectively assess a selection/ recruitment process when you're yourself participating in it. I see several people here occasionally over-estimating their capabilities and complaining that they were wrongfully rejected. I think some time back someone gave them a nice nickname of "sour grapes".
We (IIT faculty) are aware of the fact that our PhD students are not the best in the world and believe me, we try hard to train them properly. Some of them do good and are indeed recruited by good industries and IITs. But the fact is that there are other (read US/European PhD) students, most of whom were formerly our BTech/MTech students; they usually submit better faculty applications and perform better in the interviews.
The selection process takes its course and we try to hire the best people from the pool of applications. We also try to not discriminate on the basis of Indian PhD/foreign PhD.
@ Anon IIT faculty,
Looking at your comments, i get a feeling that you are carefully ruling out one common possibility to promote IITs as legends. For instance, how do you rate the BEs from top level state universities like Jadahvpur,Osmania, Anna Univ or even BITS, Pilani and such students go on to MS/PhD abroad perform well and apply. Again, why so much affinity towards US/Europe PhDs (honestly US/UK PhDs)..how about doing PhDs in NUS, NTU, University of Hong Kong, top ranked univs of Japan, infact Tsing Hua and Peking University (all universities are highly ranked than IITs)...
Specifically your comment says "Former BTech/MTech students of ours submit better applications"...This is because they have the liberty to contact you and get insider information information about what to do and what not to do. This privilage is not available for other candidates. Clearly, the shortlisting and departmental level process is biased towards (exceptionally putting efforts towards) recruiting IIT B Techs.
Possibly, IITs need even western input to carry out the selection process. A single minded ranking mindset is not healthy process for IITs.
PS: I am also a IIT faculty
Selection process:
(1) B.Tech(IIT)
(2) B.Tech (NIT/BITS)
(3) B.Tech (Univ)
(4) B.Tech (private college)
If you are (1,2) it does not matter where you have done your masters or PhD (any foreign university or IIT/IISc will work)
If you are (3,4) M.Tech from IIT/IISc is a must, otherwise your chances of getting in are minimum. PhD can be from IIT/IISc or from a foreign university.
Postdoc experience is only counted for years, it has no value.
However I have seen some B.Tech students from IITs did not get selected for faculty positions due to bad performance in their PhD.
Selection committee always does the right job, if you cannot get into IIT, most likely its because of your inability.
Publishing papers during PhD and Postdoc is not just sufficient for faculty positions. Candidate has to demonstrate potential for independent research, leadership and teaching.
By the way I am a B.Tech from private college, M.Tech from IIT and PhD and Post doc from a top North American University. I am a faculty in IIT.
"By the way I am a B.Tech from private college, M.Tech from IIT and PhD and Post doc from a top North American University. I am a faculty in IIT."
So is Professor Giridhar. He sits on selection committees for recruiting faculty in IITs, in academy fellowship selection committees and even selects people for Bhatnagar and other awards. So B.Tech from IIT is not required for selection even in IISc or become even famous.
Maybe he should tell his experience of recruiting faculty
A faculty in IISc
Just wondering where B.Tech (private college) + MS&PhD (europe) fall in the hierarchy?
To succintly put, extra favour is given to a IIT degree holder (BTech or MTech) with a North American experience...Selection committee does right job means "department level" screening committee is not proper...Just accept the truth...if you argue everything is done in ideal way in IIT, things would have been miraculous...
When you say, selection committee looks for degree of independence etc etc..it's perfectly true and it is a mandatory skill for a faculty to survive. But please understand how they manipulate this term for IITians and non-IITians which i have seen in my experience...
Some big decision maker: IIT degree candidate (BTech/MTech) with good credentials - Good academic background, worked with a big guy in this field...published lot of papers...let's hire him..
Non-IIT degree holder (BTech/MTech) (who worked with the same PhD supervisor as the first guy) - Not strong background in India..possibly published so many papers because he worked with the top guy in this field...let's reject him...
By the way, science department faculties, please do not comment on this...Only Engineering faculties respond to this.
Physics and chemistry departments are extremely strong in India. So, the process is competitive. The issue is only about the system followed by the engineering departments...
Cracking JEE/GATE means something in India. As I said before, number of papers don't count, they will only help you to get till the interview.
Not having B.Tech/M.Tech from IIT is a big disadvantage. However, there are people without B.Tech/M.Tech from IITs and working as successful faculty in IITs, however their percentage is low. Also it depends on when and where you are applying. If the department is saturated, they would only take the best or recruit none.
Dear Anon@September 6, 2016 at 8:50 PM:
Thanks for your comment. I am not famous but I will tell my experience.
1. Many of my students are faculty in IITs. Naturally, my students studied in IISc.
2. I have served in several committees for faculty selection in many IITs (IIT Madras, Kharagpur, Hyderabad etc.) both in chemistry and chemical engineering. Among the people recruited, it is roughly 50% Ph.D from IITs.
3. I look only at the research record of the candidate at the Ph.D and post doctoral level and consistent performance.
4. Personally, I like if the candidate has done one of the degrees (B.Tech/M.Tech/Ph.D) in IIT. This is because if the candidate has done his/her B.Tech in NIT and then gone abroad for Ph.D, he/she may unrealistic expectations about the IIT. Ultimately, one has to struggle for students, space, money in IIT/IISc with poor infrastructure and a candidate who has never seen the IIT system may think otherwise. This is just my personal opinion and other selection committee members may not agree with this assessment. In a recent selection committee that I served, we selected a candidate with a degree from Bengal engineering college with Ph.D/post doc abroad.
5. IF you think awards mean something..INSA young scientist medals are given to several candidates with B.Tech from private college, M.Tech from university and then Ph.D from IIT. Last year Swarnajayanthi award was given to a B.Tech from private college and Ph.D from IIT. Swarnajayanthi and Bhatnagar awards are given consistently to people having Ph.D from IIT and non-US backgrounds.
For candidates who did not make it through selection committee, don't get disheartened. Apply to all possible IITs. You will have a great advantage if you apply to the IITs who are recruiting for the first time, they are desperately looking for faculty to teach. It is also not a bad idea to apply to NITs and some private universities. You can always at any time go and work in the industry. I know for many it is a dream to join as a faculty in IIT/IISc, these are the best working places in India (at least for engineering).
Increasingly exceptional candidates are applying for faculty positions, sometimes these candidates apply to multiple IITs and mostly get offers from all the places. Since IITs at a given recruitment offer only few offers, some people might miss their chance because of these exceptional candidates.
The above reason in only one, others include saturation of a research area in the department. Non availability of research space and large amount of money for a prospective faculty (mostly for experimental persons).
Once you join an IIT, you have to really struggle to put things together, there will be administrative load (new IITs), teaching load (sometimes up to 6 credits /semester) (new IITs) and on top of that you are expected to do good research and supervise students.
In the selection committee they also see if you can fit in such an environment. Believe me, working in a foreign university is like a cake walk, IITs are very difficult places to survive.
The best thing would be to carefully iterate on the entire selection process and see where you have lacked, and try to improve those areas. There are many faculty who did not get offer from one IIT and got in other at a later stage.
One last thing I want to point is many prospective faculty think that they have excellent publication and hence their profile is great, but if you see the lot of applications almost everybody has similar research profile. Getting faculty positions in IITs have become extremely competitive, and roughly 1-2 offers are made out of 20-30 applicants, so you can understand the competition.
It is not a bad idea to browse through the faculty profiles of a department you are applying for, it gives you an idea whether you can apply there or not. I will do this exercise if I want to apply in a place, at the end of the day you will be competing/collaborating with these people.
For candidates who did not make it through selection committee, don't get disheartened. Apply to all possible IITs. You will have a great advantage if you apply to the IITs who are recruiting for the first time, they are desperately looking for faculty to teach. It is also not a bad idea to apply to NITs and some private universities. You can always at any time go and work in the industry. I know for many it is a dream to join as a faculty in IIT/IISc, these are the best working places in India (at least for engineering).
Increasingly exceptional candidates are applying for faculty positions, sometimes these candidates apply to multiple IITs and mostly get offers from all the places. Since IITs at a given recruitment offer only few offers, some people might miss their chance because of these exceptional candidates.
The above reason in only one, others include saturation of a research area in the department. Non availability of research space and large amount of money for a prospective faculty (mostly for experimental persons).
Once you join an IIT, you have to really struggle to put things together, there will be administrative load (new IITs), teaching load (sometimes up to 6 credits /semester) (new IITs) and on top of that you are expected to do good research and supervise students.
In the selection committee they also see if you can fit in such an environment. Believe me, working in a foreign university is like a cake walk, IITs are very difficult places to survive.
The best thing would be to carefully iterate on the entire selection process and see where you have lacked, and try to improve those areas. There are many faculty who did not get offer from one IIT and got in other at a later stage.
One last thing I want to point is many prospective faculty think that they have excellent publication and hence their profile is great, but if you see the lot of applications almost everybody has similar research profile. Getting faculty positions in IITs have become extremely competitive, and roughly 1-2 offers are made out of 20-30 applicants, so you can understand the competition.
It is not a bad idea to browse through the faculty profiles of a department you are applying for, it gives you an idea whether you can apply there or not. I will do this exercise if I want to apply in a place, at the end of the day you will be competing/collaborating with these people.
For candidates who did not make it through selection committee, don't get disheartened. Apply to all possible IITs. You will have a great advantage if you apply to the IITs who are recruiting for the first time, they are desperately looking for faculty to teach. It is also not a bad idea to apply to NITs and some private universities. You can always at any time go and work in the industry. I know for many it is a dream to join as a faculty in IIT/IISc, these are the best working places in India (at least for engineering).
Increasingly exceptional candidates are applying for faculty positions, sometimes these candidates apply to multiple IITs and mostly get offers from all the places. Since IITs at a given recruitment offer only few offers, some people might miss their chance because of these exceptional candidates.
The above reason in only one, others include saturation of a research area in the department. Non availability of research space and large amount of money for a prospective faculty (mostly for experimental persons).
Once you join an IIT, you have to really struggle to put things together, there will be administrative load (new IITs), teaching load (sometimes up to 6 credits /semester) (new IITs) and on top of that you are expected to do good research and supervise students.
In the selection committee they also see if you can fit in such an environment. Believe me, working in a foreign university is like a cake walk, IITs are very difficult places to survive.
The best thing would be to carefully iterate on the entire selection process and see where you have lacked, and try to improve those areas. There are many faculty who did not get offer from one IIT and got in other at a later stage.
One last thing I want to point is many prospective faculty think that they have excellent publication and hence their profile is great, but if you see the lot of applications almost everybody has similar research profile. Getting faculty positions in IITs have become extremely competitive, and roughly 1-2 offers are made out of 20-30 applicants, so you can understand the competition.
It is not a bad idea to browse through the faculty profiles of a department you are applying for, it gives you an idea whether you can apply there or not. I will do this exercise if I want to apply in a place, at the end of the day you will be competing/collaborating with these people.
@anon states "roughly 1-2 offers are made out of 20-30 applicants, so you can understand the competition". Quite on target. IITM receives well over 1000 applications every year, interviews 100 - 150 and makes about 30 offers.
Dear Professor Sriram, I think all IITs should publish this data on their website, like number of people applied, appeared for interview, and finally selected for each department. This will give a picture of the competition and prospective faculty will know their standing.
This is a (late) response to Anon @ April 29, 2016 at 6:07 PM re Nature rankings based on weighted counts of articles in journals identified by Nature as worth including in the list (for all thats worth). Clearly the global ranking is not worth writing home (or here) about; but if you look at the relative rankings of individual institutes (not all IITs or all-CSIR or all-IISERs which is meaningless), it turns out that the top three are IISc, IIT Bombay, and NCL Pune (or TIFR if you want to count NCBS and NCRA with the 'main' TIFR). Possibly it is a useful measure for would-be applicants to these and other places. The HRD ranking ranks Universities and "engineering" departments separately (interesting choice) and does not consider national labs at all as presumably research accounts for just 30% of the ranking, and 'quality of publications' accounts for 40% of that value (for 2017).
Re comment above, IACS is third, not NCL (which is fourth).
http://www.natureindex.com/institution-outputs/generate/All/countries-India/All/weighted_score
I always wonder how many candidates with a confirmed offer from a foreign institute opted to join the Indian institute.
If there is someone in the forum please list your experience with procedures in both recruitments.
Also, it will be interesting to hear from someone who gave interviews for a faculty position outside India vs India.
Dear Prof. Giri,
Kindly let me know when is the council meeting held for September at IISc.
I have a hunch that my application is being advanced for the interview.
I do not know when I will be informed about the interview, if I am selected for interview.
Regards,
Just some statistics: Competition for positions in India in basic sciences division. Recently, IISER-Tirupati advertised assistant and associate professor positions, application for which were accepted for 1 month (15 Aug-14 Sep, 2016). For the physical science division only, the institute received >350 applications out of which 20% were for associate professor, which also means that there are around 280 applicants for about 2-3 assistant professor position actually available within the the department. Considering that only half of those applicant are good enough and 3 positions will offered at the end, the chances for each applicant getting absorbed is about 2%.
IISER TVM getting >350 applications. Imagine how many applications are received by IISc or old IITs.
Anonymous @September 9, 2016 8:01 PM asking about "foreign" vs. Indian applications
I was in a situation similar to this a little while ago. The "foreign" place I had an offer from ranks reasonably high in most generic rankings, but in my opinion many Indian departments in my fields of interests are at least as good. I ultimately accepted an offer from India. To their credit, the "foreign" place never referred to their superior numerical ranking during the negotiation process (they did refer to the salary difference, but I am not sure if the salaries in India are so "low" anymore that this was meant seriously).
In terms of professionalism of the process, I did not notice any differences. One of the Indian places was so quick in its responses and processes that it would be hard to beat, but the others (both Indian and foreign) were also professional enough and stuck to their timelines.
In terms of interviews, I think many of the Indian interviews were more technically oriented. Many people seemed very interested in either understanding the technical details of something I might have said in the talk or in communicating the precise details of something they were doing or thought I might be interested in.
Dear Profs. Madras, Sriram and other senior members of the community,
I am curious about why this dichotomy exists - on one hand a large number of applications (presumably with a significant number of good candidates) are received for positions in india's premier and even newer institutions, and on the other hand there is always a narrative in the media (and also supported by administrators) that a severe faculty shortage exists? How can this situation be remedied?
Regards,
HS
Media compares against the sanctioned posts which is calculated for an ideal student to faculty ratio (say 1/10). Does not necessarily reflect the actual requirements. Hiring at a department also depends on the resources it has to accommodate new faculties.
Media reports about the faculty shortage issues are quite understandable. But what is lacking from IIT side is that they are not willing to report in which areas faculties are lacking. For instance, consider IIT - X has faculty shortage of 400 against the sanctioned strength of 1000 (40 % shortage). Among the 600 faculties, some departments manage to fill up the slots quickly while other departments struggle. If IITs manage to make this issue more transparent and provide precise information about the faculty recruitment areas, then i think many candidates do not feel so unhappy about this process.
Mere information of 350 applications received and only 2-3 were offered does not give useful information nor the toughness of the procedure. If the advertisement is very specific (for eg: organic chemistry, biochemistry etc etc) and if such competitions prevail then it makes sense.
The case of IISERs and IITs are very different...though i agree with previous anon's comment that the advertisements from the IIT's were not clearly specific (or too generic)... Also, the sanctioned faculty strength does not have any stringent requirements to particular departments ..On one hand you can clearly understand the government is actually unclear (incapable) to define the needs which leaves the whole authority to the governing bodies..This allows people to bend rules (like IIT Mandi) and also protect the IIT legacy by recruiting candidates with IIT backgorund for faculty positions and on a greater level ensuring producing quality labors and protecting the legacy of west...
HS,
You are not understanding. The number of good candidates who can be taken are minimal. Recently, Prof. Madras served on a selection committee for IIT KGP. The IIT had shortlisted 3 candidates from 45 candidates and were willing to take all three, if found suitable. However, the selection committee found no one suitable. I am only giving you this as an example, and not to blame Prof. Madras (For that, there are hundred of characters in this forum).
I need one clarification...
Is the experience before PhD (for example , in a Navratna PSU after BTech) counted or is it just the post-PhD experience that matters?
And what if the PSU experience is in the same field as your research area (Power Sector , for example)??
Thanks in advance..
Dear Prof. Giri,
Kindly let me know when is the council meeting held for September at IISc.
I have a hunch that my application is being advanced for the interview.
I do not know when I will be informed about the interview, if I am selected for interview.
Regards
Council meeting is third week of september
Has anyone applied to CARE, IIT D recently? If yes, kindly let me know the overall response time and the interview experience?
About CSIR grants
I am a new faculty at a national laboratory, I have submitted a research proposal to CSIR. Now its more than 3 months, but I have not received an acknowledgement. They are not answering telephone calls. What can I do? Does anyone have experience with CSIR.
PK
There is an old saying by a Professor from ICT, Mumbai.
" It is not what you know is important, it whom you know is important" This was said when there was networking. Now networking has become official with the ubiquitous
internet. There are some commandments one must remember
1. Work under a reputed Professor. He or she should be an heavyweight in terms of academic ranking. This is extremely important.
2. See that you apply to place where the genealogy of senior selection committee member is tune with the genealogy of the mentor or supervisor with whom you have worked. This is very important. Then it is all the family. This works even in the US of A, so India it will work with full force.
3. See that you get an appointment letter from the institute and if you can get when overseas ( after presentation in the institute you are applying for). One should give a presentation in the midst of second postdoc and then go back saying I have to finish . Then say " Please forward the appointment letter by email as I or whomsoever applying will be overseas wrapping up within six months or 1 year.
4. Never go to India finishing and applying at Institutes. Many very good PhD's have become programmers as they came back and tried for an academic job. The psychology of applying from overseas still holds myopic magic
The second line should read " when there was no networking"
Theories are nice, but I think facts may be more useful. Some of you may have seen article on faculty recruitment in the ToI which quotes me (OK, they got some numbers mixed up, never mind). I compiled some data on faculty recruitment of the last few years. I have given some broad trends in a post earlier this month (Sep 4 up above), here I give some more specific data.
IITM has made 92 offers in the last 3 years. 55 of the candidates had overseas PhDs and 37 had desi PhD. Of these 37, 24 had some overseas experience (mostly post doc) before being recruited by IITM. 57 of the 92 were overseas at the time of recruitment - meaning 35 were in India at the time the offers were made. Of course, this 35 includes the 13 desi PhDs who never went abroad, but this also means there were 22 who were abroad as post doc or to do PhD but had returned to India when they were recruited. Figures above use Institutional affiliation at the time of interview to reckon whether someone was in India or abroad.
There seem to be a lot of people in the comment section of this blog who feel that their application was unfairly treated because they received all their degrees from India.
Prof. Sriram's statistics tell IIT's side of the story which prove that this assumption is not valid.
However, I think that the reason for this assumption has got to do with the ratios. The ratio n_1 of number of people selected from abroad versus the number of people who apply from abroad, is probably much larger than the ratio n_2 of number of people selected from India versus the number of people who apply from India. As long as n_1 >> n_2, we will continue seeing some discontent.
I don't know if IITM has also compiled some numbers to verify that my random guess is close to truth or very far-fetched! Perhaps Prof. Sriram can comment.
Statistics of selection ratio not readily available. It will take fair effort to compile. The local applications count is boosted by hundreds of applications every year from candidates without PhD, that would have to be taken out to get at the "right" ratio.
Inspire faculty awardees:
Are you getting fellowships in time? My second installment is due since long; documents were approved in Nov! No luck with many emails sent to almost all dst contacts I could locate.
P
Hi P. My answer is no. My documents were approved end of July. The delay for my first installment was 8 months (so this year I am aware what to expect- though would like a pleasant surprise). I have also sent emails to DST contacts but as you know those are nearly never answered. I have also raised complaints/discussed this issue with many top scientists who I found were unaware of it. But after getting to know, mostly they have tried to explain to me that such delays are "normal" and that one cant expect more than that. The sad part is that such delays seem to have been accepted as "normal" and asking for better is "expecting too much".
I am going to inform the PMO about the delays and how they are affecting us.
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@iitmsriram I am a postdoc in Mathematics working in numerical analysis and am planning to apply to IITs & IISc for a faculty position. I was recently in conversation with an IITM faculty (name withheld, I can reveal the name if needed) regarding applying to Mathematics department at IIT Madras. However, I was discouraged from doing so. The reason given to my surprise was the following: "IIT Madras Mathematics faculty feel vulnerable if they hire a strong candidate". This left me completely perplexed. Upon further digging, the faculty told me that a strong candidate was not offered a permanent position, since his profile was way above other faculty @ IIT Madras Mathematics department (he had an undergrad from one of the IIT's, Ph.D from Caltech or Stanford and had post doc from another excellent place in the U.S.(I forgot which one)). This came as a rude shock to me. I have Ph.D. from Oxford and a post doc from UCLA. Should I even consider applying to IIT Madras Mathematics department or am I above the bar :-)? Of course there has to be some truth in what the IITM faculty revealed to me, but I would like to hear from you.
UCLA mathematic postdoc and all others. Please apply first, and once you have an offer (or not), you make statements. Once a postdoc asked whether he/she should apply to IIT, NIT or a regional university. I believe apply to wherever you feel and you chose the best offer. Please do not select a place or make an opinion about the place before applying.
@ Oxford PhD and UCLA postdoc...
I belong to engineering division, yet i can still comment on this.
If your scientific record is stellar and you demonstrate a high degree of independency, then i do not see a reason to neglect your candidature. Getting into top notch universities is often a great feat which i do not deny. However, i have seen (in engineering), candidates to who graduate from such top notch universities predominantly rely on the reputation of the supervisor and collaborators. The candidate may have incredible publication list. But, when questioned about the individual contribution of the candidate, things begin to fall flat. Such candidates may end up getting faculty positions but i have seen in most cases they never made a significant impact to the scientific community.
To avoid this, many developed countries take a significant time to give tenure track position to a faculty in US and Japan (am not sure of the system in europe). Especially, in Japan a faculty can be kept in contract position for a period of ten years which is quite long contradictory to the system adopted in IITs and IISc.
Please avoid writing here when drunk.
How can the department reject a candidate? Very learned members such as the blog owner serve on selection committee. If the candidate is good, he/she will be selected even if the department feels otherwise.
For this to happen, the department, the dean, the director and the selection committee members all of them have to agree and "FIX".
@HS: The candidate was not even shortlisted for an interview and hence was not even examined.
@Anonymous labelling others as drunk: Isn't the first set of shortlists done at the department level? From what I am aware, I was informed that the first shortlisting is done by the department inviting the candidate for a seminar. The next shortlisting is done by the director and selection committee on a subsequent day. Am I right?
@ anonymous...
I am encouraging the candidate to apply first and letting him/her know the expectation from the interviewer's side.
@ anonymous claiming others as drunk....
please behave yourself. There are mistakes (bias) happening in the department level selection process which cannot be denied completely. The institutes need to come up with a more clear definition of research areas they anticipate in the advertisement process which will minimize some of the problems. Though IITM does this but you do not get to see this trend in many other IITs.
"I was informed that the first shortlisting is done by the department inviting the candidate for a seminar. The next shortlisting is done by the director and selection committee on a subsequent day. Am I right?"
No. The selection committee is involved in shortlisting in many IITs, especially IIT MAdras
@Anonymous UCLA PostDoc: With all due respects to IIT Madras Mathematics department, why would you apply to IIT Madras Mathematics department given that there are two excellent mathematics institution (CMI and IMSc) in Chennai (in case you prefer Chennai to settle). Again, with all due respects to IIT Madras Mathematics department, behind the scenes even IIT Madras faculty acknowledge that the Mathematics department is an embarrassment to IIT Madras and its recruiting/faculty issues have been an issue not just recently but for a long time.
Well, Ox-anon, I believe I know the candidate. He did B.Tech. in my department (AE), got his PhD at Stanford and was doing post doc at Courant. Solid CV. He applied in 2015 at which time the Math dept had a hard criterion of considering only candidates with 3 years post PhD experience which this candidate did not have. But things get more complicated, we have persuaded the department to consider candidates with 2 years experience, but he has not applied after that. Like another anon has pointed out, the department voice in the interview stage is only through HoD; the director, two external experts and a member of the Board of Governors (a senior prof) are all there in the selection committee, HoD's voice will not carry over everyone else. Also, IITM does shortlisting with the two external experts through teleconferencing, so department will not be able sideline anyone at that stage either. I suspect your source is a relatively junior colleague whose frustration with other issues in the department is coming out this way. When a department is going through a transition, a little bit of patience on the part of Juniors would help everyone!
@Anonymous UCLA PostDoc: I second with Anonymous Professor. Why would a candidate from Stanford or Caltech even apply to IITM Mathematics department? Probably, he has not done his research on Mathematics departments in India! If you think you are good enough, look for good Mathematics departments in the country and as Anonymous Professor points out institutions like IMSc, CMI, TIFR lead the way.
@iitmsriram: Thanks for your reply. Doesn't IIT Madras provide a contractual Assistant Professor position till the candidate completes 3 years? At-least, thats what the advertisement seems to indicate. Also, I was told by the same IIT Madras faculty that hiring even fresh candidates or candidates with 1-2 year experience on permanent position is regularly done at IIT Madras. So your reason of considering candidates with 3 years post PhD experience doesn't seem to apply in practice?
@others: Thanks for the suggestions. Will consider applying to CMI, IMSc, TIFR instead of IITM. How about the Mathematics departments at other IIT's, IISc and IISER's? Do these Mathematics department also suffer from such "vulnerabilities"?
@Ox-anon (assuming), read my post carefully. Some departments (sciences, typically) do not hire without 3 or more years post doc experience. Engineering departments routinely hire fresh PhDs. Departments are free to set their own requirements, as per prevailing practice in the field. In Physics or Chemistry, this does not seem to be a major issue as the faculty-after-post-doc practice appears to be widespread and most candidates come in with more than one post doc stint. Maths was also doing same, but as this does not seem to be the wide spread practice, IITM was losing out good candidates to Institutions which were not having this requirement. As a response to this, Maths department is now interviewing candidates with less than 3 years experience. One offer (out of three) in July 2016 was to a candidate with less than 3 years experience.
BTW, next IITM faculty ad is expected in the next week or so.
@Ox-anon: I heard this same thing at IISc from an IITM colleague (btw the candidate you mentioned joined IISc in an Engg. department). I found this to be ridiculous the first time I heard this but turns out the reason you mentioned is actually true with the department having a legacy of dubious faculty/faulty selections. This reflects extremely bad on the department. Also, as an aside, his wife applied to IISc last year (to an Engg. department, the author of the blog and also probably @iitmsriram should be aware of this) and her application was forwarded by the concerned department only to be rejected by the selection committee. His wife also had a good pedigree but didn't have as many publications and experience. She is now a faculty at IIT Madras. Compare this to great institutions like CMU, Harvard/MIT, Stanford, Chicago, etc. which accommodate two body problem even when one of the candidates has a strong application. Further, having been at IISc and in Indian academia for roughly a decade, all Indian Institutions must now start addressing this two body problem especially in cases where both parties have a strong application. We can't go by some age old rules, which in some cases was created for no good reason.
@IISc Prof, did he join IISc Engg dept? I talked to him after IITM Maths turned him down (after all, he was my student during his B.Tech. days) - well actually, he was not turned down, he was offered a visiting appointment and he indicated he was joining ICTS and I see his name there too. This particular case is more complicated and I am not sure which way it is going to go. He wants to be in Bangalore and she would like to be in Madras. They need to figure out which way to go. Of course, I advised him to follow the better half!
IITM is working on two body problems. We just "poached" a couple off IITD where one had a regular appointment and the other was hosted for a fellowship. We have taken in some more couples in the last 2 -3 years.
IISc PRof,
Please get your facts right. The person went to ICTS and not IISc. You mention
"His wife also had a good pedigree but didn't have as many publications and experience." Yes, she had an excellent pedigree.
She had a total of 4 publications, all in "Combustion and Flame" throughout the career. The engineering department in IISc you mention is flooded mostly with faculty who publish a maximum of 2 per year. They instantaneously fell "in love" with such a candidate who will naturally not publish more than 1 per year and will be very selective in publishing unlike our blog host. She was enthusiastically recommended by the department but the selection committee had sane members (actually two Bhatnagar winners) who promptly turned her down. It did not help that two other departments in IISc had also turned her down.
It is a fact that poorly performing departments want to take candidates who have good pedigree but very few publications so that they will not be under pressure to perform. Now, unlike IIT-M, many IITs and IISc shoot down strong applications citing lack of experimental facilities, or expertise in area etc. The selection committee members do not even get to see these applications. In IIT-M, this is not the case and the selection committee looks at each application. But even here the selection committee can be convinced by the department by stating "We have talked to him..he needs more than 2000 sq. ft space, he needs dedicated NMR..and that's why we did not shortlist him."
@Anonymous I have my facts right. @iitmsriram yes, he has moved here recently from ICTS (few months back may be). It will be interesting what their final decision will be, though I too would suggest what you did.
"...4 publications, all in "Combustion and Flame" throughout the career". For a career that is just budding it may not be a trivial achievement due to two reasons i) Combustion and Flame and Proceedings of the Combustion Institute are certainly the top journals in the field with extremely high review standards ii) All four were difficult works done from scratch in an area where India has nearly zero expertise but is highly sought after by many. So, please do not judge people just by bin counting or because he/she does not publish in your favourite journal. I am sad but at the same time quite glad that IISc lost her to IIT-M's benefit. But the tables got turned in his recruitment. Only shows our insanity.
IITM faculty.
I think it is less useful to discuss more in-depth about two people looking or settling in their jobs in this forum.
Do people having say in the selection process really consider or are aware of areas where India has zero research expertise?
I always felt (not a scientific parameter) that most IITs go by what BTech courses need more faculty?
In todays publish or perish (western) world, lot of work even those appearing in prestigious ones are you scratch my back I scratch yours. So it matters who are the authors!
Thats why a work of same quality level is lot more difficult to publish from India as compared to West.
The person who had 4 combustion and flame was solid in her work but did not present what were her future plans beyond her phd and post doc. Her research plan was very weak. I was consulted about her profile and I stated that lack of concrete future plans or vision cannot make for a good faculty. I stated that her profile is excellent otherwise.
Prof. at IISC
Also to anon who stated that IISc Engg. depts hire people with high predigree but low publications. That is not true at all. Infact most of the hires come with excellent credentials. That some of them fail later could be due to assorted reasons. Depts. like chemical, mechanical etc at IISc have some top notch faculties who do excellent work.
" anon who stated that IISc Engg. depts hire people with high predigree but low publications."
One should always hire based on pedigree and not on publications. One who does not have B.Tech from IIT has no right in teaching B.Techs students in IITs or the UG students of IISc. I am glad that IISc is following this principle while some IITs have started hiring people based on research publications that are not worth writing about.
"Depts. like chemical, mechanical etc at IISc have some top notch faculties who do excellent work."
Yes, indeed. These departments have mostly hired only B.Tech from IITs and all of them have done wonderfully well. The only exception to this hiring policy in chemical engineering was the blog host. And we all know how he has spoilt the department culture and generally lowered the standards of the department and IISc.
@Anon talking about hiring at IITs based on B.Tech courses: This is unfortunately true even in @iitmsriram department. The department lost on good candidates few years back due to this insane policy. This is supposed to be IIT where both research and teaching are given utmost priority. As I was taught in my grad school way back, a good researcher has to be a good teacher (except for some crazy caps) but not the other way around!
We also brag two IITians getting MacArthur fellows (S.Khot from Courant and M.Prakash from Stanford) and how IITians are brilliant and so on. But are we able to nurture such young people back home @ IIT's and IISc's by providing the right ambience? The second person (he is an Asst Professor in Bio-engineering) is a Computer Science major from IITK bringing his expertise to Bioengineering. If he had applied to any of the IIT's in mechanical or bio-engineering, his application would have been rejected in the first round stating that he might not have been able to teach mechanical or bio-engineering courses! It is time to rethink this hiring policy by certain departments at IITs. Hire for quality. Rest will be consequence!
"a good researcher has to be a good teacher (except for some crazy caps) but not the other way around!"
By your logic, a Nobel Prize winner has to be an outstanding teacher. This is absolute crap. Some of the best researchers in IISc can not teach a single class properly. Teaching is very important and it is thus important to recruit BTech from IIT only.
For serving on the selection committee of Indian cricket team, you should have played cricket at the test/ranji level. The same logic applies here.
@the above Anon: I too agree that IIT B.Tech's must be recruited for IIT. My comment was at Anon who said
"I always felt (not a scientific parameter) that most IITs go by what B.Tech courses need more faculty?"
If you find a good candidate who has a B.Tech from IITM in the same department but teaches subject X instead of subject Y, iitmsriram's department will not accept such candidates, which is a truly sad state.
Though I differ with you on the fact that "Some of the best researchers in IISc can not teach a single class properly".
Here does the definition of "best researchers" mean Bhatnagar prize awardees or fellows of all these useless academies etc or ones who get some hazaar funding?. If so, yes, I agree with you.
However, if your definition of "best researchers" is one who is passionate and interested about what he his working on, then inevitably he will turn out to be a good teacher!
" I too agree that IIT B.Tech's must be recruited for IIT. "
Glad you agree. In fact, IIT should state in their advertisement that B.Tech from IIT are preferred. Hopefully, one director will have the guts to do it and implement only recruitment of B.Tech from IIT.
I agree with you that most of the Bhatnagar prize awardees and fellows of academies are all useless who neither can teach nor do good research.
But even nobel prize winners and passionate researchers may not be good teachers.
"These departments have mostly hired only B.Tech from IITs and all of them have done wonderfully well. The only exception to this hiring policy in chemical engineering was the blog host. And we all know how he has spoilt the department culture and generally lowered the standards of the department and IISc."
Was unaware of the fact that the hiring policy in chemical engineering was B.Tech from IITs or M.Tech from IISc. That's excellent. Very good that they have maintained it. They made one exception and burnt their fingers. Now they will not repeat the mistake again. Wish all departments in IISc/IIT follow this policy.
It appears that cracking JEE was the only glorious moment of your life, cling on to it!
Many faculty who has B.Tech from IITs are useless and they are hired only because of their pedigree. You cannot accept it because you are one of them.
Try to accept your failure of becoming a good researcher, you will sleep better.
Since comments are flying thick about my (AE) department, I will try to state our department level policy via an example. My department will not look to hire McArthur Fellow M. Prakash from Stanford with his IITK CS + Bio Engineering expertise. That just does not fit in the AE department plans, pass. I think not doing this is what is insane, not the other way around. Of course, this is a stretched example, but the department has a vision as to directions in which to grow and faculty hiring would be in line with this vision only. People may not agree with the vision, they are free to have their opinions.
Of course dean Sriram will work with his director to see where we might fit Prakash and how we can make it happen if he is interested in coming to IITM, that is how it works.
And yes, we have nice theories about only IIT BTechs getting hired at IIX. Any IIX doing that would be in serious trouble these days. In the last ten years or so, IIT BTechs have largely quit going for higher studies in engineering and a good fraction who do go, look for careers abroad. Depending on this pool would really cripple hiring. Ah, yes, some facts might be in order. Of the 25 offers made by IITM this year, only 4 are to IIT BTechs (and one more to an IIT BSc + MSc). And, two of these 4 are shifting to IITM from other IITs. 15 of the 25 are headed to engineering departments. I will shortly post data from previous years, I believe it would be similar. I find it difficult to see the claimed preference trend in this.
iitmsriram,
I think it is lack of will. If you maintain high quality in hiring, people who look for careers abroad may come back.
"Depending on this pool would really cripple hiring." Then how come IISc chemical engineering has hired only from this pool?
The other way is to acknowledge that this pool is diminishing due to poor quality of IITs and therefore, we need to hire second rate and third rate college graduates.
To Anon at 11:52 PM
Please do not shame the "pool" any further, by your comments.
Epitome of ego.
It's fascinating how this high degree of freedom offered on this blog (mainly due to anonymity) can sometimes bring out the worst in people.
Slandering a couple who don't even know that their case is being discussed on this blog, making unfair claims (both positive and negative) about IIT BTechs; did we really learn something new by doing this? By the way, both these situations (two body problem, IIT BTech vs others) have been discussed in a relatively polite manner on this very blog earlier. You just need to search through the old comments.
newProfnewIIT
@iitmsriram To add to Anon at 11:52 PM, once we IIT's go behind all these artificially inflated rankings instead of quality (which is the only right metric) it is natural that B.Tech students no longer will find IIT's attractive places to come back to as faculty. Compare the quality of your department now and say 15-20 years back. Why has it gone down? It is clearly related to the ratio of # of IIT B.Tech faculty hired to the number of non-IIT B.Tech faculty. Also, your departments bigger colleague with around 60-70 faculty have always been a lousy department, since it always had not more than 3-4 IIT B.Tech's as its faculty and everyone knows the quality of this department! Your dept once used to be called the cooler version of the bigger department. The long term vision your department has will only bring down the quality in the long run. As I said before, the vision at any point should be we will hire for quality, rest will follow. Also, the most disappointing thing is, even when IIT B.Tech's have power in the form Deans and Director, no one seems to have courage to take the right decision for the growth of the institution and the country in the long run. These are decisions, which we have in our hands (unlike say reservation).
anon advises "The long term vision your department has will only bring down the quality in the long run. As I said before, the vision at any point should be we will hire for quality, rest will follow."
And I repeat, "People may not agree with the vision, they are free to have their opinions."
I will respond to only one other anon comment which vaguely mentions about IISc hiring. IITs are on significant faculty expansion while IISc is not. IISc is having 400 - 450 faculty while IITM, IITB, IITD are now around 550 and IITKGP is at around 700 with major growth in the IITs in the last 5 - 6 years. IITs are growing at about 30 per year, IISc is looking at about 10.
IIT B.Techs should be hired as faculty at IITs right after B.Tech. There is no need of them doing Ph.D. because they already did so in Kota.
" making unfair claims (both positive and negative) about IIT BTechs; did we really learn something new by doing this? "newProfnewIIT
Yes. we have learnt many things. The deans and directors of even old established IITs want to expand without regard to quality. They will hire BTech from third rate colleges, Ph.Ds from IITs just to show they are expanding without regard to quality. We know that is happening in new IITs but even old IITs want to do this.
Anon @ October 7, 2016 at 6:23 AM calls "Please do not shame the "pool" any further, by your comments." as Epitome of ego. i completely agree.
" offered on this blog (mainly due to anonymity)" If Prof. Madras does not like the comments, he can delete it. I think he agrees with most of the comments made here including comments on him.
Reading about the hiring at IITM and other IIT's, I get reminded of the following story:
A city wanted to build a state of art modern zoo. They spent some infinite amount on it. They obtained grants and funding from the state, centre and individuals. When the animals were about to brought to the zoo, they realized that the enclosure for most of the animals was slightly small. Further, they realized that maintaining such an animal would be expensive. Hence, they decided as follows:
(i) One tiger would be replaced by 1000 domsetic cats. After all they are the same cat family.
(ii) Couple of Antelopes and Gazelles would be replaced by 100 sheeps and goats. After all they are the same Bovidae family.
(iii) Crocodiles would be replaced by 1000 lizards. After all they belong to the same class of species.
(iv) Snakes would be replaced by 1000 worms. After all they belong to the same family.
(v) Wolfs would be replaced by 10 dogs. After all both are very similar.
At the end of the day, the director of the zoo was very happy. He had a lot of animals and the cost of maintaining them was less after all!
@above: "I think he agrees with most of the comments made here including comments on him."
I don't think that's true. Being tolerant of opposite opinion does not mean that one agrees with that as well.
"The deans and directors of even old established IITs want to expand without regard to quality" - I wasn't able to infer this from the discussion even though I'm supposed to be brilliant as I have a B.Tech from 'old' IIT.
-newProfnewIIT
The entire discussion is bit confusing!
I feel a IIT BTech with PhD is definitely hired if he applies and is interested.
If not at IITM maybe at some other IIT.
In the end what matters is a talented individual must find a place somewhere in the system.
If not so then definitely there is something wrong with the candidate or the system.
It is said that Einstein was in fact rejected by the University of Bern!
So mistakes do happen.
Having said that I sincerely request people involved in selection to be
free from pride and prejudice of all sorts.
May the best person win!
Very depressing to see the attitude of some IIT faculties towards their colleagues who graduated from a non-IIT institute. There is no doubt that IIT/IISc seem to be the most attractive place to work compared to other private colleges, state/central universities mainly because of the eco system it offers for research. As an outsider i can see where politics starts in these institutes.
"If Prof. Madras does not like the comments, he can delete it. I think he agrees with most of the comments made here including comments on him."
I do not delete comments. It does not mean I agree with them.
I have served on enough selection committees for fellowships, Bhatnagar award, faculty recruitment etc. to know how these things work. One *tries* to make a fair and unprejudiced decision based on the academic background, research accomplishments, future plans, departmental requirements and the pedigree of the candidate. An exceptional researcher does not need an IIT education (see nobel prize winner Prof. Venki) but a B.Tech/M.Tech/Ph.D from IIT is "preferred" during recruitment mainly because the candidate is aware of the system. Mistakes are made in recruitment but it is NOT because of malice. In any case, many factors are taken into account and saying a 6.5 CGPA B.Tech from IIT is a superior researcher than an university topper in B.Tech does not make any sense.
Calling me names on this forum will not work. I have been called worse during my life and it does not seem to bother me. I also understand that people who criticize me for publishing (and getting cited) will also criticize me if I stop publishing and become inactive. Therefore, this does not mean anything.
Giridhar
Take a bow Prof. Giridhar for an excellent reply.
Anyways looking at the posts, I think the fundamental reason to this fight is our lack of confidence and ability to identify quality and impact, as a society. We cannot separate impure from pure, lies from truth, success from the person, criminal from a leader and in the same vein quality from garbage. Thus, in this collective failure we resort to meaningless standardizations like total number of papers, citations, h-index, B. Tech from IIT. In the seas of lies and insecurity, we try to build our own oasis of comfort and resort to standardizations which would project ourselves on the best possible light (N, h, BTech etc.) without caring whether that is an objective judgement. We do not know what is good science or bad science or how to even do the former in a mad rush to generate the above metrics. Many current stars are actually future projections of the Kota student practicing on how to solve difficult integrals in less than 20 seconds. It is an irony that these two communities separated by a time period are actually fighting between themselves. So please stop this fight and honestly ask ourselves to be little more diligent while judging people out of metrics which really does not matter. As Prof. Giridhar rightly said, for winning a Nobel prize you really do not need IIT-B. Tech…..
Prof. Giridhar, why is it necessary that the faculty candidate is aware of the system? Does MIT follow the same system?
October 8, 2016 at 1:06 PM:
The systems in MIT and stanford are not every different. However, the difference between IIT and a university is very significant. However, we have recruited many candidates who B.Tech from universities and Ph.D from abroad and thus not going through any IIT system.
Please read the comment from Sep 6
--------
Thanks for your comment. I am not famous but I will tell my experience.
1. Many of my students are faculty in IITs. Naturally, my students studied in IISc.
2. I have served in several committees for faculty selection in many IITs (IIT Madras, Kharagpur, Hyderabad etc.) both in chemistry and chemical engineering. Among the people recruited, it is roughly 50% Ph.D from IITs.
3. I look only at the research record of the candidate at the Ph.D and post doctoral level and consistent performance.
4. Personally, I like if the candidate has done one of the degrees (B.Tech/M.Tech/Ph.D) in IIT. This is because if the candidate has done his/her B.Tech in NIT and then gone abroad for Ph.D, he/she may unrealistic expectations about the IIT. Ultimately, one has to struggle for students, space, money in IIT/IISc with poor infrastructure and a candidate who has never seen the IIT system may think otherwise. This is just my personal opinion and other selection committee members may not agree with this assessment. In a recent selection committee that I served, we selected a candidate with a degree from Bengal engineering college with Ph.D/post doc abroad.
5. IF you think awards mean something..INSA young scientist medals are given to several candidates with B.Tech from private college, M.Tech from university and then Ph.D from IIT. Last year Swarnajayanthi award was given to a B.Tech from private college and Ph.D from IIT. Swarnajayanthi and Bhatnagar awards are given consistently to people having Ph.D from IIT and non-US backgrounds.
Dear Prof. Giri,
Kindly let us know that if the selection committee for hiring faculty at IISc sometimes can hire a candidate WITHOUT personal or Skype or Telephone interview. Is it is the discretion of the selection committee to call the candidate for personal interview (if he is based in India) or speak to him via Skype (if he is based abroad)?
Assuming that the candidate had already visited the department, gave a talk, and met the faculty towards his application.
Thanks,
"Kindly let us know that if the selection committee for hiring faculty at IISc sometimes can hire a candidate WITHOUT personal or Skype or Telephone interview."
AFAIK, no.
Bye laws of IISc specifically permit selection committees to consider candidates in absentia. Whether they do or not will have to come from those familiar with the happenings.
The rules allow recruitment without interview. However, in the last few years, the candidate has been asked to appear in person/over skype.
Did anyone notice that a new kind of inbreeding has started in IITs?
IIT Madras Ph.D. -> >25% of IIT Mandi faculty
IIT Kgp and IIT Kanpur Ph.D. -> >25% of IIT Guwahati faculty
and many more. You can find similar statistics about many other institutes of India. This happens due to the "connection" of Ph.D. supervisors with the Director of these institutes.
If the selection committees were as neutral and unprejudiced as Prof. Giridhar has been claiming, the probability of this happening would have been much lesser. The truth is that most Indian institutes are academic drains where mosquitoes grow in abundance.
@all My question seems to have got lost in this debate. Can someone provide a ranking of Mathematics departments at IIT's and IISc for a candidate to apply? (which is the best and so on) My work is on functional and numerical analysis. Is there something like US rankings for Indian universities, which allow people to search for the university rankings based on the field/sub-field. Thanks
Can anyone comment on the next consideration date of Ramanujan Felowships?
To Anon above,
I have been informed that, MOST LIKELY the committee will meet before the end of this year.
I had applied for Ramanujan fellowship when I was outside India. In the mean time I have joined an IIT and also applied for early career award scheme. I have been told by past Ramanujan fellows that application is considered as long as the address when applying was of a foreign location!
Would I be considered for one or both of them, and which one preferably?
How often do faculty selection interviews happen in CSE, IIT Kgp? When did it last happen? Does anyone know?
@ Anon October 10, 2016 at 7:36 PM
Thanks for the information.
Does that mean I can submit my application now to be considered this year?
To anon above,
Its always better to apply as soon as possible. If you already have a host institute who is ready to host you, then you should not wait. I believe, you still have time to be considered in the next selection committee meeting.
All the best!!
Attn. INSPIRE Faculty: The sanction orders from the DST are appended to the document on the following link:
http://www.inspire-dst.gov.in/Consolidated%20Sanction%20Letter%202016-17.pdf
The Ramanujam fellowship format says
Does this mean the proposed research area should be different from the PhD work?
How much different?
Can anyone comment based on personal experience?
The Ramanujam fellowship format says
This fellowship is meant for working in new areas and laboratories in order to
expand their research capabilities, other than the one where the candidate
obtained the doctorate degree from.
Does this mean the proposed research area should be different from the PhD work?
How much different?
Can anyone comment based on personal experience?
I would really appreciate, if someone can tell me what are the documents needed to be submitted for Ramanujan Fellowship.
I have the-
1)Applications form (with all my details and research plan as given in the SERB website,
2) Nomination Letter from my host institute with sign and stamp (format as given in the SERB website.
Do I need something else, like covering letter from my host institute or something else before I send the documents to SERB??
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the responses from INSPIRE awardees. The list on http://www.inspire-dst.gov.in/Consolidated%20Sanction%20Letter%202016-17.pdf was last updated on April 22, 2016, and did not have my name even when my documents were approved in November, 2015. It appears to me that the government is putting all the money into BJP government schemes, e.g., Imprint and now Vishwajeet. People on a fellowship/grant scheme started by Congress government are in trouble. Please let me know if you know of a DST or a government contact who responds to emails. Or are they waiting for a tweet? :-)
P.
Hi P., The recent sanction orders are appended to the file so on the last page you will find the latest ones. I found mine quite recently and money was received by my host within a week of that.
Thank you so much. I did find my name in the list. I should apologize for bashing the government :-)
P.
Hello everyone,
I have applied for DST INSPIRE Faculty Scheme July 2016 (Session II). Does anyone know approximately when to expect interview invitations for the shortlisted candidates?
Regards,
Madhu
Hi , I am an OCI with German passport and working in Germany since 2008. Recently, I got an offer from an IIT and I will be joining soon as a permanent faculty. I am paying my pension in German "rentenversicherung" which I can have back only after my retirement, as per my information ( Because of my German passport) . I am just wondering whether Germany and India have some agreement for transferring the funds from German pension accounts to Indian one. Or there is no any connection between Indian and German pension system.
I have also taken an appointment at the German pension office to get more information regarding this. Meanwhile, If any one having any information / personal experience regarding this, please share. That will surely help me.
Thanks
@ anon above
AFAIK the mainland European countries as of now do not have any such agreement (I am from Netherlands). UK does have some agreement to this regard.
Just out of curiosity did you get a permanent position as an OCI or is it on contract of 5 years?
Thanks for the info. Yes, I have a got a permanent position offer with 1 year probation period.
Hi anon@germany,
I am not sure for those with German citizenship, but for those with a residence permit, one can claim their share (not the company's contribution) of provident fund two years after leaving the country. May be you already know this.
The other option is to wait until retirement and get pension from Germany. Generally, people say that claiming only your part of the PF fund now (i mean in two years) and investing in a fixed deposit in India makes more financial sense than taking pension from Germany after retirement. (i guess this is due to difference in interest rates, inflation etc).
I will be joining IIT as Assistant Professor on Contract in early December directly from abroad. I wanted to visit my home and then join.
But because of the complications with reimbursement I decided to join difectly.
Can anyone comment if I can avail the vacation in December?
What about the vacation in summer?
Or do I have to wait one year/confirmation (depending on whichever is earlier)?
Dear @asstprof_anon, yes, you can avail vacation during December also. Vacation is worked out on academic year basis. During the first (and last) year of service, it will be given on pro-rata basis, so you will have less than the full 60 days. However, you can divide up the available days between winter and summer, that is permissible.
@ Annon October 24, 2016 at 8:49 PM
You can visit your home and then to IIT, they will reimburse you, I spent one month at my home before joining and they reimbursed me including flight from my hometown to the IIT.
@break at home anon, not all IITs may be willing to reimburse the full journey if there is a break. If there is a month break, some IITs will take it that home is your "station" and only reimburse home to IIT and not abroad to home to IIT. This varies across IITs, so your advice may not work at all IITs.
Hi anon @ October 24, 2016 at 2:04 PM
Thanks for your message. I know that the person having residence permit can claim back the contribution after 2 yrs. But in my case, this is not possible.
I can only get the pension after my retirement. It seems that there is no agreement to transfer my German contribution to Indian pension schemes..
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