Would like to share the pathetic experience of IIT-Jammu seminar+interview held recently at IIT-Delhi.1. No accommodation was initially offered in the interview letter. Once requested, accommodation was offered in IIT Delhi.2. We were asked to vacate the rooms in the evening of the second day. Imagine someone has a flight/train the next day. Where he/she is supposed to stay??3. There was no arrangement for lunch on both the days. Candidates were called at 930 in the morning and the seminars/interviews were continuing till evening. Only tea and light snacks were served in the first day but there was absolute nothing on the second day.4. Forgot about lunch there was even no proper arrangement for drinking water.5. Washrooms near the boardroom in the main building where interviews were held were in pathetic condition with shit lying all around. Can't believe I was in IIT Delhi, one of the premier institute in India. Please bear in mind that we candidates are human and need food/water like others. If this is the way they conduct interviews and treat us, GOD knows what will be the ground situation in Jammu.August 27, 2017 at 10:38 PM
@ Anonymous (Aug 27, 2017 at 10:38 PM)I am really sorry to hear about your experience during the interview at one of the premier institutes of India. I hope that there is some sort of feedback requested from the applicants after the interview process, so that the shortcomings can be rectified in future. You should share your experience with the concerned authorities.Good luck!August 29, 2017 at 8:42 AM
@IIT Jammu IIT Delhi Interview CandidatesThis is the big issue with recruitment. At most places, candidates are treated as beggars. The selection committee is also aware that candidates do not have much choice so they do not make any specific attempt to keep candidates comfortable. In West, candidates are treated royally. They are taken for faculty dinners. Every meal is in the company of some one from the department. Best possible accommodation near the venue is provided. Candidates are given tours. Selection committee knows that the effort made to short list and invite a candidate is huge and is very expensive. So they do not want to repel excellent candidate just because the department was not responsible enough. Every candidate has a choice of multiple excellent institutes so they are sorted aggressively. Hope in India, selection committees realise that they are trying to attract the best talent. I have seen at least 4 excellent candidates who did not feel good about the top institute in Bangalore and instead joined ivy league universities and Univ of California system in the US. I am sure Indian science is at loss by creating such a bad impression. Also, I hope this forum will set a ground for making an effort by committees in future. This is usually visited by aspirants so hope once they are in they can bring the change.August 30, 2017 at 9:33 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...IIT Jammu experience is not uncommon. It is only a primer after you join. If you think that the bathroom of the board room of IIT Delhi is not neat, just imagine the state of the restrooms of your department in IIT Delhi. Everywhere it will stink. Even in IISc, aspirants are treated badly because that is the state of affairs even after they join. Please don't compare ivy league schools to IISc. It is an insult. People don't come back to India to do science. Most come back because they are lazy or have family issues.
Anonymous Anonymous said...At one of the interviews we were arranged lunch but the selection committee was running late so we were not allowed to eat either. We were not given a time slot, made to wait from morning till midday for the interview and some were interviewed only at the end of the day but were asked to show up at 9am. Also the selection committee was having lunch at a table next to us bus would not even smile at us or talk to us as if we were not humans. The head of the department and the dean were the two people who gave us company.August 31, 2017 at 2:27 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...The point is it is the same everywhere. If you apply for DST or dbt for funding, you will be called for presentation at 9 am if you are shortlisted. No accommodation will be provided and you have to travel air India. After reaching the venue, you will be as slotted for the 16th presentation. That will be at 5 pm. You will have a separate lunch from selection committee members so that you will not influence them to give you funding.This is how everything works in India. So think of selection committee in IIT Delhi as training for you.August 31, 2017 at 6:16 AM
I about to join a new IIT and I am wondering if I will run into problems after two years when I apply to an old IIT. Due to professional and personal reasons, the old IIT, which is located in a metro near to my home town, is my first choice. But since my CV is not good enough currently, I am not able to compete with other candidates at the old IIT. I am positive that in two to three years time, my CV will substantially improve and I can reasonably compete at the old IIT. My questions are (a) Will the old IIT reject my application just because I am applying just after two years time joining a new IIT? (b) Will the new IIT refuse to send my application and refuse to give NOC as I am applying immediately after two years?I am just wondering what is the wise thing to do after two years if I join the new IIT now.Thanks,
I had a similar experience at IIT Delhi. They called us 9 am in the morning and my interview was at 5:30 pm in the evening. Nobody came to ask us even for water or tea, forget lunch. My interaction with the office staff and the HOD gave me an impression of bureaucratic system infested with red tape. Selection committee asked me questions that they did not know correctly. I had to explain it to them. I was offered the position with enhanced pay, but I had multiple offers from other top IITs where I was treated more professionally. It gave me good vibes about the work environment and culture. I joined here and never regretted for a bit.
Dear new-IIT anon, your institution cannot refuse to forward your application, it is your right. There may be a numerical cap, but even then, you can ask for an expiation. You should be able to explain to the old IIT as to why you are shifting after a couple of years - I believe any meaningful explanation will do. More than anything, the director will be wondering why you want to shift and anything meaningful (don't pull a fast one) will do.
urgh, explanation, not expiation
Dear Prof. Sriram,Thank you very much for the reply.
To the Anno (August 31, 2017 at 10:22 AM )If you think that after 2-3 years you can substantially (!!) improve your CV, you are day dreaming. Most of the new IITs do not have research culture. You will be loaded with all the activities other than research. Most of the places, the director is a dictator. Institute seed grant, place allocation, etc. are also variable in all new IITs. If you are not getting in to IITs near to your home town, it is better to join new IIT which is comparatively better than others. Many times it may so happen that you may settle well in the few years and shifting will create more problem than good (apart from staying near to family). If you want to stay in metro, select some new IIT in metro. For family reason, you may select some new IIT which is near to your home town even if it is located in other state. I do not think traveling should be a problem if the new IIT is well connected by Air and Rail.My suggestion is that you should think about to get settled at the earliest. Staying at one place has more advantages in terms of research stability, salary, mental peace, and many more.
To Anon of August 31st, 10:22 AM: " People don't come back to India to do science. Most come back because they are lazy or have family issues" I strongly disagree with this generalization. There are many who came back to do good science and have done and been doing very good science. Our blog host is one of them, many around in IIXs.
To the anon looking to change IITs after joining. I agree with the comments of anon at September 3, 2017 at 12:34 PM.It takes quite a bit of time to establish and start your research at any place - whether new or old. Since none of the new IITs have finished their construction, you will encounter that even getting lab space might take more than a year's time. Getting projects approved, procuring equipment, getting students, and then finally starting your research and publishing papers - you're easily looking at a two year timeline.If you're in a hurry, you might want to surrender your independence to an existing colleague, use their equipment to solve their problems and then become a co-author in their papers.Depends on how you want to do it!
Hi Anonymous and all trying to be part of IIT faculty system,Sorry to know your experiences at IIT Delhi. I was also interacting for my presentation and then interview at IITD two years back. I took one year to decide my joining and then, I have joined IITD year back and let me tell you that "overall experience after joining here is positive". Your comment about the toilet is absolutely true and completely agree that the condition is really pathetic, even Director toilet is as bad as other common ones. However, other than toilet disaster, rest of the process here is not that bad. The lecture halls are fantastic, students are good quality and if you love research then I am sure you will like the culture here. PhD/MTech students are very sharp and hard working. They can take your research ideas to reality in a very short time. Housing is only issue for initial 6 months (you will be in transit on-campus housing) and then almost everybody get on-campus regular (decent 3BHK) housing. I know many people including myself, who managed to get more than 1 Cr funding in less than 1 year time frame. Some are even close to 5 Cr in 2/3 year. But you should be very active in writing projects and all. Also, please never compare IIT Delhi with other new IIT's... Selection at IITD will be really tough and will also depends on you research area matching with the proposed department. Else it doesn't matter you are from MIT, CALTECH or Stanford.Lastly, your family/official life balance is much better than the corroborate life. Sports facilities are great at campus and you and your family can live a nice and healthy life here.So if you are thinking positively to return to India then IITD is a great place as per my advise. Don't read and listen negative people comments as they will always find negative side in any society. Good luck to all the people looking to join IIT Delhi. Good Luck and Cheers!!!!!
Dear Anonymous authors,(September 3, 2017 at 12:34 PM; September 4, 2017 at 1:12 PM)Thank you very much for your comments and giving me the reality in terms of new IITs. Your comments are very useful in my current decision to join a new IIT.Regards,
Hello Friends,Anyone knows when the next faculty interviews for IIT-Hyderabad are going to be conducted for EE and CS?Thanks.
Bathrooms used to stink in IISc too. Then during the period of 2009 to 2014, the blog host was put in charge of this with another faculty. The bathrooms became very clean.Whether the blog host does good science can be debated but that he kept all bathrooms in IISc clean can not be denied.In selection committee and PAC meeting where he is, the blog host also ensured that we candidates eat before the committee members. I met him when I appeared for an IIT interview and I finally joined IIScAll this shows is effort from faculty can accomplish lots of things
Dear all,The MHRD minister talked about a special recruitment drive including at old and new IITs before this year end, is there going to be a special recruitment session at IITs? Any advertisements already out? New advertisements coming up?Prof. Sriram can you share with us what you heard and/or know?Thanks,
Special recruitment drive is for SC/ST/OBC and PwD candidates only.https://www.iitk.ac.in/dofa/special-recruitment-drive
A faculty is hired at an old IIT. He or she contributes to teaching and other admin tasks, but is not interested in doing much research or applying for grants, even though that person proposed a research plan to get hired. Will the IIT take any action, if any, against this person? What are the other potential repercussions for this relatively new faculty?
@Anon September 7, 2017 at 4:18 PMMore than 50% faculty in IITs are not doing research in any case. Sometimes, they publish rubbish to graduate stupid PhD students. Some of them do not teach well either. No action is taken against such faculty, especially because quite a few of these are with SC/ST/OBC/PwD background who cannot be touched in India.
@Anon September 7, 2017, at 7:02 PM and others on the forum,The sad state of higher education (university level) in India is putting the blame of reserved categories. There are several articles published in reputed news papers (Hindu, Times of India and Indian Express) that there are hardly any full Professors/ Deans/ Directors from reserved categories in IISc, IITs, IISERs and central universities. If my information is wrong, senior Professors from IISc and IITM present in these forums can provide actual statistics of how many Professors, Deans, and Directors are present in India from reserved castes in central universities or IIXs.So people who are ACTUALLY faculty in these institutes should be blamed not reserved categories. One candidate went for an interview in IIT (old) and was told that since he is from reserved category he can get a job anywhere and was refused a position! He is a faculty in England. So for reserved candidates, it is advisable not to reveal your category as you can get rejected (yes discrimination occurs in India too). So please blame the right person, not an assumed person. It is truly shameful, and disgusting.
I think the intent of the question (@Anon September 7, 2017 at 4:18 PM) was different than knowing about broader reservation and discrimination politics. A recent faculty, assume gen category, at an old IIT wants to know, if he or she contributes to teaching and other admin tasks, but is not interested in doing much research or applying for grants, even though that person proposed a research plan to get hired. Will the IIT take any action, if any, against this person? What are the other potential repercussions for this relatively new faculty?
IITs cannot take any formal action against non-performing faculty members. If the person is under tenure track as in IISc (and also some IITs have introduced), tenure can be denied (the appointment is on contract and the contract will not be renewed). If the appointee is under probation, the probation period can be extended on the basis of not performing required tasks (not a very strong case); in principle, services can be terminated without confirmation after probation, but since the grounds are likely to be weak, this may not stand legal challenge. All IITs have a fraction of such faculty members; directors regret hiring them and will do all they can to not promote them and sideline them in other ways. More positive directors will try to engage with them and see if they can get them to "live up to the potential". But no formal action can be taken. After the probation period is over, there is permanency (gross misconduct would be the exception). If we do not limit the argument to new entrants, I would think I would fall under this category as I have completely drifted into admin track and have not taken on students for more than 10 years now. I would hope that my directors and board consider me an asset and not a liability.
Hello Prof. Sriram,The MHRD minister has mentioned to the news media that IITs and Central Universities should fill up the faculty vacancies substantially by this year end. Is there a conscious effort to hire more faculty in the next round of recruitment at IIT-M?The next advertisement will be in October? or in September to speed up the hiring?Thanks,
Prof. Shriram, You are indeed an asset! This anonymous comment may carry 'slightly' less weight than director/board's judgement, but I believe they concur too.
I believe IITM ad will come as usual, not sure about exact timing. Filling up all vacancies or something like that is unrealistic target. That would require hiring something like a couple of thousands at the IITs alone. Availability is not at that level - if that many are hired, there would be serious drop in competence / quality.
Tenure system in India is not a good thing. Tenure requires objective evaluation. However in India like so many things, decisions towards such tenures will be mired with nepotism and controversies. People can be even harassed using that if they do not tow the line.
Dear Prof. Sriram,Thank you very much for your reply to my question on the MHRD minister talk to the media.Regards,
Interesting topic on tenure system in IndiaIt is the way how seniors can exploit you and system can harass you like a slave."People can be even harassed using that if they do not tow the line" This is what happening Can some seniors explain successful tenure system being operated in India. for performance of any new faculty, the whole system should cooperate be it paper work for ordering things/equipments, UC/SE getting clearance from administration etc etc etc and i assume this is not something new to be taught to this group. finally getting things in table from the vendor. All those team players involved in govt system are so called permanent staffs.Having spent almost a decade in US, i can surely say how this happens miserably in India.And seniors claim that tenure system is good so that it can push people to work.First remove those permanent people who do not work at all. Do anyone in this community know that few of the people in tenure system are not paid regular monthly salary in so called faculty recharge program operated by UGC. They are paid after university receives money from UGC which can be few months to year. Still they cannot open mouth because you are under review after 5 years.
Hello all, Anyone has experience of attending faculty interview (remote or in person) in IIT Ropar and Indore? if yes, please share some details like how was the overall experience, what kinds of questions were asked, how quickly decision was made about selection etc., thanks.
I have been called for seminar and interview on two subsequent days at IIT Indore. Anyone else has been called? Can anyone share some experience as to what questions are asked at interview? The seminar length is only 10 minutes. I am surprised how I can include all about my research in 10 minutes, that also when I have PhD and postdoc research to show !Any thoughts on this?
Yes, I have attended the same few days back. You have to focus on your most impactful research work and make it as relevant to the department concerned as possible. After ppt there will be some discussion regarding your research plan, the contribution you want to make to the department, why IIT Indore etc. They haven't asked anything too technical from my ppt, possibly no one was there from my specialization. In interview, you will be asked some questions by the Director (who is a very nice person, at least I felt so) regarding your educational background, courses you want to teach, research plans, collaboration, then the experts may ask some basic technical questions from your research or field of study (but it's more of a discussion rather than a strict question-answer session). Best of luck!
thanks for inputs..did you know your result? how long was your presentation?
Not yet, I guess it's a bit too early to expect results, same 10 min, they will ask you to come to conclusion once you exhaust that 10 min period.
Thank you for the info. Was the selection committee members also present during the seminar on first day? Or there were only department faculty in seminar? If yes, did they ask questions? How long the question answer session last on both the days? How many days before you had this ? Were there any questions from undergraduate not related to research from selection committee members in your case?
Hello Friends,Anyone knows when the next faculty interviews for IIT-Hyderabad are going to be conducted for EE and CS? Is shortlisting complete for the next round?Thanks.
to annon @ 10:59 PMYes, they were present,department faculties were also there, they have some queries about the presentation, first day around 20 min after ppt, next day around 30 min. No questions from UG subjects, but few questions outside of research but within the broader area of specialization, I had the intimation around 12 days ago.
@anon above, did you attend it via skype or in person? I am attending via skype.
Any updates on the 7th Pay commission? And, unrelated question: does anyone know if IITs can bid to be one of the 10 Institutes of Eminence?
to anon@12:10 PMI attended in person, but I know they were having skype sessions as well, so that shouldn't be an issue. Best of luck! and share your experience after the interview.
Any update on 7th Pay for IITs, NITs, CFTIs? I think many people are waiting for this in all institutes.
@ankur, IITs have been asked to submit proposals under the Institutes of Eminence program. The proposal is quite detailed and may run to hundreds of pages! In some kind of first attempt, continuing funds release is to be tied to achieving stated mile posts / goals in the early years - and these are not generic mile posts but specific targets (metrics). Because of the way some expectations are stated, I believe only old IITs will be able to apply.
A news article that is possibly interesting to the ongoing discussion herehttp://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/transparency-sought-in-recruitments-at-iits-nits/article19740451.ece
Anybody knows if all new IITs have seed grant and whether it is the same? What about IIT Indore? How much is it?
Did anyone attend off-shore walk-in interviews (especially in the US) for the position of AP? Are they useful or is it better to apply through the website? In some cases, the travel and stay are not reimbursed and it could be an initial screening round (which could perhaps be done through a phone call).
Anyone who attended IIT Indore interviews got the results?
I have the same query, when did you attend? in person or via skype?
I attended in skype few days back...
Did anybody receive any news regarding IIT Indore faculty selection process conducted last month? it seems they are not responding to email inquiries.
Dear Prof. Sriram @ IIT Madras,Should we expect the next round of IIT-M Faculty Recruitment sometime this month?Thanks,
I have got selected at one of the new IITs and I must say from my experience of around one year of applying to IITs that the process is not fast, not fair sometimes and there are so many flaws in the way IITs conduct recruitment.
@Anonymous October 5, 2017 at 6:42 PM,It would be great if you can elaborate more on your experiences. How long did it take for the whole application process? When you say unfair, in what ways?As a future applicant for a faculty position at IITs, I (and maybe many others visiting this blog) will get a better insight if the current applicants share their views.Thanks,
I am the anonymous above at 6:42 pm. I thank Prof Giridhar Madras and to this wonderful blog for giving me such useful information and experiences of the people of applying to IITs. I would be sharing my experiences and will contribute to this blog because it helped me and I also want to help future applicants. I know many of the people benefited from this blog but would not write anything here after they get selected. Only few people such as Ankur and some others write here even after they have joined IITs. Prof Madras and Prof Sriram advices have been very useful.NewIIT Prof
@anonymous at 7:20 pmThe timelines have varied a lot in my case. I got a call from 1 old, 2 new and some updates from 2 other places. The IIT where I got selected completed the process of application submission to final offer letter in 4 and half months.The old IIT where I was called for seminar called me after 8 months of submission. I did not hear anything from them after that. Another new IIT also called pretty fast within 1 month after seminar but their interview was delayed until 5 months.NewIIT Prof
In above comment, I meant 'another new IIT called pretty fast within 1 month of submission for seminar but the selection committee interview was delayed until 5 months after this seminar.NewIIT Prof
IITM has a fixed calendar, advertisements are issued in Feb / Mar and Sep / Oct and offer letter go out in July and around Jan. I have stepped down as dean at IITM as of March, my successor Prof. Koshy Varghese tells me the Sep / Oct ad should be coming out any time now. Check http://facapp.iitm.ac.in for best information.
For those who cannot wait for the fixed calendar, IITM also offers visiting faculty appointments throughout the year. This is done through the department with approvals every second Thursday of the month and offers by the end of the month.
Dear Prof. Sriram,Thank you very much for giving us this information amidst your busy schedule. Thanks for letting us know other available opportunities.I am the person who requested information about the IIT-Madras advertisements.Regards,
From my experience of applying to number of IITs, I can surely say that none of the other IITs follow such fixed timeline as IITM. You have to just apply and wait for update on your application, few will act sooner but most of the others will take long to process.Therefore, my advice is that you should apply at more places to increase your chances. People who apply from abroad and are looking to come back to India must remember this fact that the getting IIT faculty position is not at all easy in current situation and so be prepared to lower down your expectations of your self worth or your expectations of the competition. Old IITs receive around 1000 applications each year and new ones receive around 2000, so competition is intense.NewIIT Prof
How does one reconcile the above two news items? Do IITs have to fund their own pay hike, now that it has been notified?
Ankur,As per news articles, the central government is going to completely fund the pay hike. However, MHRD is going to insist that IITs should generate funds to manage at least 30 percent of their budget.
Any news on PDA enhancement - was it accepted ?
Anon@11:02It is not trueJavadekar said a requirement asking autonomous institutions under the Centre to generate 30 per cent of the funds they need would be relaxed for salary."For salary, the institutes will not be required to generate the 30 per cent of the additional cost. The government will bear the entire amount. But as a matter of principle, they have to generate more funds to become self-sufficient," he said.https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/hike-for-professors-delhi-cuts-state-slice-177887
Not sure what is meant by meeting 30% of pay hike from internal resources. Entire income (internal resources) is reported as part of the budget by the IITs. So, if projected expenditure is x, income is y, the ministry grant is x - y. Now, taking away part of y to meet additional salary expenditure (say z) will simply increase the grant required by the same amount. Instead of grant of x + z - y, it will be x + 0.7z - (y - 0.3z) which is the same. At given current fee levels (fees fixed by government, including who all are exempt or partially exempt from paying fees), the income may be about 10% of total expenditure or 20% of revenue expenditure. And, about half the income is not from fees. Not sure how feasible it will be to target meeting 30% of expenditure from fees / income.
What are the final scales that were approved? And how does one read that goddamn table? If currently I am at payband x with agp y for z years, how do I find my new pay?
1.What is the future -annual pay revisions - already factor 3 with minimum pay Rs.25000 being considered for 2018 January2.Dearness relief for pensioners already due for 3 installments being deferred for pay revision - they have to bear without any protest as they are impotent for any action
How NITs have been excluded from the list?Is it oversight or any intention initiated by NIT Council?“In addition, the revised pay package will cover teachers of 119 centrally funded technical institutions — IITs, IISc, IIMs, IISERs, IIITs and NITIE,” a statement said after the meetin
It would appear that someone in the Press Information Bureau decided that NITs can be put in etc. The report submitted by Ashok Mishra committee covers CFTIs, includes IITs, NITs, IISc, IIMs, IISERs, IIITs, NITIE, NITTTR, SPA etc etc. The PIB news release (http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=171610) states "... teachers of 119 Centrally Funded Technical Institutions viz. IITs, IISc, IIMs, IISERs, IIITs, NITIE. etc."
So far only source available is the press news;if the Ashok Mishra report or MHRD orders are available they may be published to know the exact decision
Any idea when MHRD will send the fitment table. Also, by howmuch amount CPDA is increased?
Any update on pay fixation order?
I heard from a chemistry friend that IIT Kharagpur Chemistry Department is looking to hire synthetic organic chemists. I thought, this will be of some help to those in the field.
IITM faculty ad is scheduled to be out this week, watch facapp.iitm.ac.in
Can anyone comment on the timeline of SERB-ECR? For the applications submitted in July, when should one expect the decision and how much time does it take for money to be released after the approval?Thanks
Thank you very much Prof. Sriram for the information.
Is it necessary to book travel by Air India for joining IIT position from abroad? Also, is it possible to travel to home city and then to IIT, would IIT pay for relocation expenses in such case? Anybody has experience in this regard? Please advice.NewIIT Prof
Annon @October 24, 2017 at 3:42 PMAll SERB schemes have dates mentioned on their respective pages. Disbursement of funds for ECR is reasonably quick within 2 months since the date of approval. I do not know about other schemes.
Annon @ October 24, 2017 at 7:44 PMYes Air India is highly recommended for international leg of your journey and domestic within India. The exemption process is rather cumbersome and I would advise against it.Regarding going to home city and then joining IIT, it depends on particular IIT. IIT Bombay is very flexible in this regard and they reimbursed me for exactly same situation. I suspect you would get explicit answers if your emailed them. It's better you call the person who is handling your joining in that particular IIT.
@NewIIT Prof and Anon Oct 24, 2017, 10:52 PM,I have a question related to relocation expenses when moving from outside of India. Was the relocation expense negotiable? Job advertisements mention Rs 1 lakh but that seems less for a person with a family and if they want to move some stuff as well to India.
Anon @ October 24, 2017 at 10:52 PMThank you for the information. I will call the concerned person.NewIIT Prof
@Anon October 24, 11:16 pmI do not think relocation expense of 1 lakh is negotiable. I believe in govt institutes like IITs, such things are not negotiable. I did not even want to try for that! If anyone has other thoughts, please share.NewIIT Prof
@NewIIT Prof,Thank you for the response. I had a feeling that this would most likely be the case but wanted to ask anyway.
Is it necessary to have graduated a PhD student for Associate Prof. position? It seems to be an unwritten rule like 35 year age limit for assistant professor.!! Can anyone clarify?
The rule is sometimes relaxed if you do a lot of administrative work. Also if your research work is exceptional they will consider it. It mostly depends on directors discretion.
The pay fixation order by MHRD is out.
so what are the most important points from this order? Except for professors the factor is 2.67. There are two grades for Asst Prof. Is the AP Gr I still contractual? There is also some mention of a process for discontinuation of non-performers. Is this for the contractual staff? But the order says nothing about CPDA. Are there missing expectations in this order?
I am a bit confused. The mapping is done based on the pay we got on 31.12.2015. Now after that we have got two annual increments of 3 % each in 2016 and 2017. So question is will these increments be now added to the final pay mapping as of today. In other words, would our pay move down by two additional cells once they map based on salary on 31.12.2015.May Prof. Sriram can clarify this.
The pay order preserves the 6th Pay commission pays, with a multiplying factor of 2.67 except for Profs and HAG Profs, where the factor is 2.72.After multiplying, fixation will be at the next higher or equal amount in the column of interest. Thus, for a fresh AP with 7 non-compounded increments the current salary is 20140+6000 = 26140*2.67 = 69793.80. The next highest available is 70900, and that is the salary of a fresh appointee at the minimum of the scale.All conditions of pay6 will be followed. So this seems to imply that AP grade II will be on contract.There is nothing new in this order. It is a mechanical implementation of the 6th Pay order for Govt. employees.Allowance have not been announced as yet, so old numbers will be used. Unlikely to be arrears on new allowances. DA will be added to the pay.The salary of a Director of an an NIT or an IIIT will be lower than that of a Professor at the highest current level of 79000. This anomaly existed even in the 6th pay and it carries over. VC of Universities are also likely to be in the same boat (as they were in 6th pay).This is based on a first reading.
@anon wondering about pay increase, yes of course, pay is revised with effect from 1.1.2016. Pay of every month after that will follow the new pattern and hence there will be increments as per new pay pattern every year. Arrears will be calculated for every month accordingly. @anon wondering about CPDA, as it is considered an allowance, this is kept pending as mentioned in para 7 of the order.
Where is this pay fixation order? Can anybody post the link?
@ProfGB, the multiplication factor is 2.57 for all, the 2.67, 2.72 etc are for starting pay only. So, someone at the entry point of associate professor (say), actually gets a revised pay of 139600 which is 2.67 times the old entry pay of 42300. However, those higher up the scale will get multiplication factor of 2.57 only and de-bunching at 1 new increment for every 2 old increments will be applied thereafter. So, the effective multiplication factor will progressively roll down from 2.67 to 2.57, similar to what happened in previous pay commissions.And, there is a 5000 special allowance, so it is actually 75000 + 5000 which is > 79000, but this is going to go as it will become (at least for now) 210000 + 5000 which is less than several stages of the new HAG scale.
Oops, typo, pl. read 42300 as 52300.
Correction: There is nothing new in this order. It is a mechanical implementation of the 7th Pay order for Govt. employees.These new pay revisions will apply from 1.1.2016. So if you were in employment then, you will get 1 increment on 1.1.2017.DA rates have already been announced from 1.1.2016. So those rates will be used to calculate arrears. The current DA rate is about 12%, I think.Non-performers: this is lip service!
iitmsriram: NIT Director's pay: allowances cannot be there on an allowance. So there is no DA, HRA, Trans. A etc. on the 5000 special pay. So 75000+5000 is indeed < 79000!Can you explain the rationale of having a multiplying factor of 2.57 (applicable even to Profs it seems) while having 2.67 and 2.72 for the starting number?
it would have been easier to understand the order and if the prof mishra committte report was also made available
Prof. Mishra report will confuse as the order is over and above that and will be implemented.Prof. Misra report might have been the basis but order is final;hence any deviations will be of only academic interest(pardon as we are all academic, but practical applications (orderr) override all suggestions (Mishra report)
Prof. GB, as I was not sure if the 5000 allowance was treated as basic pay, I replied the way I did. So, like you mention, 75000 fixed + 5000 special allowance turns out to be < 79000. And yes, the situation will continue with HAG professors of a few years standing getting more pay than NIT / IIIT directors. I recall NIT directors were to be automatically placed in HAG scale, would this notional placement allow them to get the higher HAG professor scale at some point?Incidentally, DA is only 5% as of 1.7.2017. Inflation (at least as reflected in the CPI used to calculate DA) has been coming down over the decades and has really come down in the last few years. After the 5th pay commission, the first three DA slabs were 4%, 8% and 13% (13% as of 1.7.1997). After the 6th pay commission, the slabs were 2%, 6% and 9% whereas now, the last three slabs are 2%, 4% and 5%. For those who are interested, these correspond to average annual inflation rates of approximately 8.5%, 6% and 3.5%.The 2.67 etc factors are the same as given in the nearest standard government pay scales, so we are just doing what has already been done in the rest of government. As an example, the previous 10,000 grade pay scale (SAG or joint secretary) had a minimum pay of 43000 + 10000 = 53000 basic (in PB4 37400 - 67000). In 7th CPC, this is placed in level 14 of the pay matrix with cell 1 minimum pay of 144200. So, the "rationalisation index" is 144200 / 53000 = 2.72. There is no reason CFTI faculty should get anything less. So, IIT Prof with previous minimum of 48000 + 10500 = 58500 should get a minimum of 58500 * 2.72 = 159120, rounded off to 159100. This is the number given in the faculty pay matrix level 14A in the order that has just come out. For Profs with 10000 grade pay, the pay is identical to the corresponding government scale, so level 14 from standard government pay matrix is reproduced in the faculty pay matrix. The term "rationalisation index" is taken from the 7th CPC report page 73 where this is explained.And finally, @anon asking for Prof. Misra committee report, the pay table given in the order is identical to the one in the report. Don't know why the report is not being made public. I suppose one can pay 10 bucks and get it from MHRD ?
addendum: 75000 + 5000 special allowance will be < 79000 when DA crosses 25% (leaving out transport allowance etc). "Left as an exercise to the reader"
Do the 6th CPC rule of moving to PB4 after 3 years of Asst Prof. continue to apply, but now being called moving to Level 13A1 (from Level 12)?As an Assistant Prof in IIX, I moved to PB4 in Feb 2016. Does it mean my new pay would be according to Level 12 for Jan 2016, and Level 13A1 from Feb 2016 onwards? If I understand the order correctly, this will happen automatically.
How about pension of retired faculty ?Could someone shed light on this -thanks
so far no reply for this and websites of MHRD does not contain nor google search is giving "Anonymous said...Where is this pay fixation order? Can anybody post the link?October 28, 2017 at 1:19 PM"
Pension ( when dearness relief 1-7-16, 1-1-17 were enquired)was left to autonomous institution concerned
It looks like retired employees of IIX like institutions (not directly central govt) are a very disadvantaged lot compared to central govt retirees. As much as NPS sucks, it is at least good that the dependence on the institution is now gone (no pensions). So a good savings and a medical insurance takes care of the financial side of life in retirement.
Is MHRD going to give an additional order attaching pension calculation concordance tables for levels 13A1, S2 14 A etc .
Pension table will be after another very long wait, next election 2019?
I am hosting the order, pl. seehttp://ae.iitm.ac.in/~sriram/7CPC_CFTIs.pdfAs per this para 1(b), "There shall be no change in the terms and conditions of appointment or nature of appointment as done earlier as per MHRD... 18.8.2009 read with 16.09.2009". These two are the 6th pay commission orders for CFTI faculty. It would therefore appear that "movement from 8000 AGP to 9000 AGP" etc would be same as existing.No word yet on pension revision. Revision of pay for non-teaching posts is in process.
pensioners (who are mostly people who retired as professors) will get a good sum unlike those who are on nps and who in future finally have to rely on the hard earned savings at the end of retirement. so it is worth the wait for the pensioners.
Thanks Prof Sriram. Can you or someone pl explain, how is entry level pay for Asst Prof in 9000 AGP level calculated to be 49200 under the 6PC? To me it appears that it should be 37400+9000 = 46400. The figure 49200 comes after compounding two 3% increments to this figure.
@anon wondering about 9000 AGP, this grade is the old associate professor in UGC, they have used a minimum entry pay of 49200, so the same 49200 has been used for 9000 AGP assistant professors in IITs etc. (though they may be getting 46400 only at present).
If say a person graduated from an iit.. can he become faculty at same iit later after his postdoc?am talking about iitm specifically
Dear Prof. Sriram, What will be the equivalent of 30000+8000 in 6th pay comission for Asst.Prof (seems grade I Asst. Prof) in the 7th CPC.Thank you.
@anon asking about AP 30000 + 8000 = ?, I thought it is clear in the document. Yes, this will be AP grade I, level 12.@shankar sahu, yes, it is possible. However, this is not looked upon favourably. There are some guidelines also, like, the individual must have started on fresh lines of research not following up on the PhD etc. Attitudes of other IITs, vary. IITK almost never takes their own PhD as faculty, some other institutions are more receptive.
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@Prof Sriram: continuing with my earlier comment about 9000 AGP, there seems to be an anomaly. Someone currently getting 46400 will now get 131400 (first cell of 13A1). But someone currently getting one increment (ie 47800) will now get 47800*2.57, which being less than 131400 is also rounded up to 131400. Is this right?
@Prof. Sriram. Do IITs relax the age for lady candidates? I am planning to apply for assistant professor and crossed 35 years a few months ago. I am married and have children.
@PB4 comments anon, this is not an anomaly, this happens in every pay commission. In the present revision, increments are to be given at one for every two pre-revised (this is there in the order). So, folks with zero and one increment in pre-revised scales (the example you have given) will both be mapped to same starting stage as you point out. Folks with two and three pre-revised increments will be mapped to one cell higher and so on. Yes, juniors will catch up to seniors. My former student who is now my colleague at IITM will catch up and get same pay as me before I retire, just like I caught up with some of my former professors who later became my faculty colleagues. It is not considered an anomaly for junior to get same pay as senior, anomaly is only if junior gets more pay than senior That is how it works.Most IITs do give age relaxation for women who took time off to start families. We can usually tell from the work history that someone took time off and this is usually then taken care of. IITM certainly does this.
However when such bunching happens aren't the two merged people supposed to get one more additional increment.
There are two paths: (1) multiply by 2.57 the pay on 31-12-2015 given in the order (2) start with grade pay column and add increments (one new for two previous).which one will be implemented?
It’s stupid not to be ambitious, but foolish to be blinded by ambitionINTERVIEW | RAJIV LALL BUSINESS‘It’s stupid not to be ambitious, but foolish to be blinded by ambition’Manojit Saha OCTOBER 31, 2017 22:14 ISTUPDATED: OCTOBER 31, 2017 22:24 ISTSHARE ARTICLE 2 PRINT A A ATH01RAJIVBLALLReturns for next 3 years won’t be as good as they should, says IDFC Bank’s MDTalks with the Shriram group to explore merger options may have been called off. Yet, Rajiv Lall, MD and CEO of IDFC Bank, is convinced that the inorganic growth option makes sense. Excerpts from an interview:INTERVIEW | RAJIV LALL BUSINESS‘It’s stupid not to be ambitious, but foolish to be blinded by ambition’Manojit Saha OCTOBER 31, 2017 22:14 ISTUPDATED: OCTOBER 31, 2017 22:24 ISTSHARE ARTICLE 2 PRINT A A ATH01RAJIVBLALLReturns for next 3 years won’t be as good as they should, says IDFC Bank’s MDTalks with the Shriram group to explore merger options may have been called off. Yet, Rajiv Lall, MD and CEO of IDFC Bank, is convinced that the inorganic growth option makes sense. Excerpts from an interview:The proposed merger with the Shriram group was important for you to grow your retail portfolio quickly and improve efficiency parameters. With the deal now off, what is the road ahead?We continue to focus on organic and inorganic growth. We now have terrific evidence of executing organic growth. Year-on-year, ex-infra funded credit growth is 76%. Retail is also growing rapidly. Our outstanding assets as on September 30 were ₹18,000 crore. Of that, direct retail was ₹ 5,000 crore. We are doing ₹500 crore a month, and by end of the financial year, we will be ₹8,000 crore. And the total retail loan book will ₹ Rs 22,000. at the ran rate we have - that’s how fast retail is growing Non-infra corporate lending is growing 60% year-on-year.We are now 102 branches, and in the next two months, we are opening another 17. By March, we will have150 branches of which 50 will be in metro and tier-I cities. We have 2 million customers now, growing at 125,000 per month so by year end we will have 2.5 million.Liabilities are growing 150% a year.We have retail deposits of ₹7,000 crore. , very comfortably going to be over Rs 12,000 crore by March. So, whether it is retail deposits, whether it is network or customers, non-infra credit growth, fee-based income -- On all fronts, our track record is rapidly getting established on execution. So, our confidence in growing organically is much higher now. than what it was nine months ago. And we are confident enough of giving forward looking guidance to our investors - which we have started doing from this quarter on these parametersIf you are doing so well organically, why do you need inorganic growth?Our legacy is costing us ₹600 crore of profit-before-tax drag every year. A large part of it is not because of stressed assets, which cost a drag of ₹175 crore ... but a ₹400 crore [drag] comes [annually] from fixed rate bonds which we cannot reprice or retire. Those bonds will stay with me till fiscal 2021. So, every year, I have an annual RoA negative drag of 0.35% on account of my legacy. Therefore, my return on assets and return on equity for the next 36 months cannot look as good as they should be looking. That is why it still makes sense to explore inorganic growth options because that would allow us to significantly cut the time to get out of our legacy.
@giri, we are getting a few irrelevant entries, time to delete?@anon asking about bunching, the wording is "If a situation arises where more than two stages are bunched together, one additional increment equal to 3% may be given for every two stages bunched, and pay fixed in the subsequent cell in the pay matrix". De-bunching is done not for every stage, but only when two or more stages are bunched and at the rate of one increment for every two stages bunched.@anon asking about method 1 vs method 2, actually, both will operate. For those who are in service as on 1.1.2016, method 1 will apply, but with de-bunching as in above para. For those who joined after that, some administrative processing has to be done and method 2 has to be adopted. As they were hired after 1.1.2016, there is no question of pay mapping for them, old pay given is to be taken as provisional and they have to be given new pay from the day of appointment. This also means that following senior - junior rule, there will be a cascading effect and those who joined before 1.1.2016 will also get pay revision upto the highest point of those who joined after 1.1.2016. To give a specific example, if among the pool of new hires joining after 1.1.2016 the highest starting pay is 32280+8000, all those who were at 32280+8000 or lower as of 1.1.2016 will get one increment per old increment instead of standard 2:1 de-bunching on account of senior - junior stepping up.
Hello Prof.Sriram, as a new faculty joining in next few months, what will be my scale as per 7th pay commission. I have been given 30000+8000 pay as per current structure. I suppose it fits in column 12 - Asst Prof grade 1. Am I correct?NewITT Prof
Tables were provided for fixing pay earlier - the principle behind was not specified. Method 1 gives 2.57 times pay on 31/12/2015 ,if debunching is applied as method 2 - Two increments debunched after that from initial level (from 2.67/2.72 times pay on 31/12/2015) will provide two different figures. Lowest will be implemented Regarding organic/inorganic was to appraise the use of familiar chemistry terms in outside world (financial) in this case with proper context and I request not to consider any action considering that as irrelevant - I sense the wounded feeling of blog being abused but it was to share the way others use our familiar terms
The blog has been very informative and helpful - focusing on use of familiar chemistry classification organic, inorganic the front news about SHRIRAM & IDFC was out of discussion. A similar focus on blog rather than PROF. shriram or PROF. Giridharmadras has resulted in request for continuing discussion. Now the emphasis is on industry institution interaction, earlier it was on research. Hence institutions do want to know the m&A, the trend, failures and the mindset of captains of industry. Engineers are expected to apply science (applied research) for practical solutions deviating from fundamental science. Paper publications are the evaluation criteria but industry put restrictions when providing scholars with access to world class facilities
Is it the same provided by prof.Shriram earlier?
Yes, this is the same as what I posted earlier on Oct 29.
Thanks for sharing early, we were reading discussions without knowing the contents and that posting gave some insight at appropriate time, though the website address has its own significance
This has been a very useful resource. Thank you Dr. Giri and Dr. Sriram for chiming in.I am strongly considering applying to IITM Biotech faculty recruitment. I have a couple of questions that I am hoping some of you can clarify.1) What is the timeline after application? I read somewhere that the candidates who apply Nov are shortlisted in Dec and then interviewed in January and decisions made Feb/Mar? Do candidates get time to accept offers? What is the latest start date if one makes it through?2) I am currently in my 3rd year of tenure-track position in the US. At 38, would I still be considered for the Assistant Professor position?
@SDA, IITM has fixed time line, advertisements are twice a year in Sep / Oct and Feb / Mar. Offers come out Jan / Feb (could be delayed sometimes) and July end. You could send email to the dean (admin) at IITM Prof. Koshy if you want more detailed information.
Hi Prof. Sriram,I have applied for the post of Assistant professor at IITM with 10 years of industrial experience post PhD. Will I be considered for the post of Assistant prof in-spite of my experience? I have also exceeded the 35 age recommendation. Also, even though I applied for the post of Assistant prof, can I be considered for Associate prof position, even though there was no ad for the same? I really appreciate for your help in this regard. Thanks!
Any idea when seventh pay commission orders to be implemented?NIT Jamshedpur had released advt. with old gradepay.Is it linked with 30% fund requirement
Anyone with seminar and interview experience at IITH? Do they consider skype seminar/interview for candidates residing abroad?
It is always advisable to attend the interview in person. However, if you have already visited the department and gave your talk and interacted with faculty, they will allow you to present thru skype.
@November 13, 2017 at 4:37 AM Did you receive an interview call letter from IIT-H. If so for which department and when is the interview? The reason I am asking is I have also applied for IIT-H and wanting to know if the shortlisting for my department is already completed.
I received an intimation for a seminar presentation in one of the core Engineering department. The seminar dates are spread over two months (November + December), for now, I am being asked to provide a couple of dates of my choice, while they will notify the final schedule later. I applied in August this year.
@November 13, 2017 at 7:32 PM OK, Thanks for letting us know.
Anyone got selected for recent IIT Jodhpur recruitment last month?
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