Friday, March 27, 2009

New pay scales for IIT/IISc

The new pay scales for IIT/IISc based on the sixth pay commission were proposed by the committee headed by the former director of IISc, Goverdhan Mehta. Here is the report that discusses the new pay scales for IIT, IISc, NIT, IISER and IIM. Please note that these are only the recommendations and they have to be approved by the government. Sometimes the government approves the recommendations (like the UGC Chhada committee) in toto for the salaries of assistant professor, associate professor and professor.

The basic pay for an assistant professor, associate professor and professor will be Rs. 38,000, 53,000 and 59,000, respectively. Institute professor will receive Rs. 75,000. For those familiar with the Sixth pay commission terminologies, an assistant professor will be in pay band 3 for the first three years and then moved to pay band 4 (PB-4). This is due to an excellent suggestion that was originally mooted by the director of IISc. 

For those unfamiliar with the terms in the report, IIT, IISc, IIM follow the four tier system (Lecturer, Assistant professor, Associate Professor, Professor) while NITs follow the three tier system (Lecturer, Assistant professor and Professor). An associate professor from the four tier system draws the same salary as that of a professor in the three tier system. 

There is also a higher scale than professor in IIT/IISc/IIM, which was termed as professor of eminence, superscale etc. Now it is called Institute professor. MHRD had previously regulated that only 10% of the faculty can belong to this cadre, but Mehta's committee recommends that only 3% be given this scale.

The increments proposed by the committee are that 25% of faculty will get 4% increment every year while the rest will get 3% increment every year. Though many faculty in IIT/IISc were expecting better allowances than that of UGC, all other allowances are the same as that of proposed by UGC. The only exception is that Rs. 4 lakhs will be given every three years as professional development fund that can be used for contigencies, travel and research expenses. Thus all allowances mentioned in my previous post (which were based on UGC) stand unaltered.

139 comments:

Dr. D.R. Kaushal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

The Govedan Mehta committee has not linked performance to salaries.
The linking of performance to salaries is not a good idea in India, where there is *no* system of judging or awarding merit.

The chairmen of the committees who decide three major awards (Swarnajayanti, Bhatnagar and J.C. Bose) of the country are above 70 years of age, have published less than 100 papers (with minimal citations) in their lifetime. If the committees themselves have such poor people, how can the people given these awards be any good?

These awards are given because of "connections" / publicity and it is not because of merit. Anyone familiar with the grant awarding agencies and their committees know that the highest grants are often given to the person who is able to "influence" the chairman of the committee and it has hardly to do much with merit.

Kumar

Dr. D.R. Kaushal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
R.N. said...

Dear Prof. Girdhar,

Prof. Mehta pay report seems very confusing. It is mentioning that, in a three teir system, Lect.(S/G) without Ph.D. will be given PB-IV after serving three years in the old scale of 12000-420-18300 but nothing about those who are ph.D. and have less than three years in the same scale. Also there is nothning for those who are Asstt. Professor with or without Ph.D. before 1.1.6 and have not completed three years on 1.1.6. I hope that things will be clear after notification. Do any one have any idea about the outcome of interministrial committee?

R.N. Yadav

Anonymous said...

Kaushal,

If you got your ph.d in 1996, you should be a professor by now in iit, not a assistant professor.

Kumar

PREM said...

Prof. Mehta Committee has recommended one upgradation for Asst. Professor from PB-3 to PB-4 (AGP 8000 to AGP 9000) in 3 years, two upgradations for Professors from AGP 11000 to 12000 in 5 years further to AGP 13000 in 10 years but NO UPGRADATION FOR Associate Professors who had already been the worst sufferers in the past also. It has become a practice or 'fashion' to make the middle order (the sandwich 'class') suffer. The Associate Professors should have also been given a benefit of years of 'service' to associate professors as well. In ISM University Dhanbad where there is four-tier system in practice no ' Flexible cadre Structure was allowed by the MHRD for last 12 years nor any post of Associate professor approved (despite of approving the 4-tier system) for 8 long years thereby making the middle order faculty to suffer very badly.

Dr. D.R. Kaushal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Kaushal babu badi chinta hain ki kitna milega? bahoot din se pareshan hain!!!! are padhao likhao , nit se iit pahunch gaye ..wahi bahut hain

Dr. D.R. Kaushal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ashish said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

If someone joins IISc as AP from an IIT with 5-6 years of experience as AP, which payband he/she would be admitted to? According to Govt of India norms, pay will anyway be protected but things could complicate after implementation of 6th PC. Would it be PB-3 or PB4? According to your post, it should be PB-4 with 5 years of exp after PhD.

Ashish

Anonymous said...

govt says teachers should permanently damage their heads for getting pb4 so that students can enjoy

Anonymous said...

The report is not approved by the government. So is the news in IITs.

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor Giridhar,

It would be great to get a clarification on the following.
While the Mehta report says the minimum baisc should be fixed at Rs30,000.00 plus grade pay for Assistant Professors, on the other hand it also says that pay fixation will be as per 6PC rules. I have joined IIT as asst. prof. last year (Basic pay 13260), now using 6PC rules (http://gate.iitm.ac.in/6pc/new/calarrears.php) the new basic pay is Rs 29500, which is significantly different from Mehta report. Which is the correct number in this case.
Hope you would thow some light in this .
Regards

Giri@iisc said...

ashish, yes; it will be in pb-4
anon, you will get 30,000+3 increments of 3% each because you joined with three increments.

Prasit said...

As per 3.4.2 of Mehta Committee report,The lecturer(Selection Grade) will move to the PB-4 after completing 3m years in the scale of 12000-18300.
My question is that whether the designation of Associate Professor will be given to such elligible lecturer(Selection Grade)?
Please throw some light.

R.N. said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

Is it true that NIT Asstt. Professors (Readers) with Ph.D. will be directly palce in PB-IV from 1.1.6 without waiting three years in the 12000-420-18300 scale.

Anonymous said...

yes it may be but it is not clearified in the report

Considering joining one of the IITs said...

I am a young researcher (PhD - Feb. 2006); currently working at Caltech. I have an offer to join one of the IITs as an assistant professor with initial basic pay of Rs 13260 in the scale of 12000-420-18300. I still have a couple of months to decide on this offer. Having said that, I am a little bit confused about what kind of salary I should expect if I accept this offer under the proposed pay scale; when will I be elligible to more from PB-3 to PB-4 etc. Any and all help in this regard is welcome. Thanks.

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Considering joining one of the IITs said...:

You will get Pb-4 only after three years as assistant professor or five years after Ph.D. However, all these differences in pay (Rs 2000-3000) are very small when compared to the work atmosphere in IIT/IISc.

Giridhar

Considering joining one of the IITs said...

Thanks for your message. About the work atmosphere at IITs/IISc, I am assuming you have a favorable view. I know very little about what to expect when I get there in terms of research/computing facilities, library access (access to eJournals etc.), academic freedom, funding opportunities and overall academic atmosphere (beurocratic and political influence). I am aware that this blog does not concern with these issues, but if you could provide some information in this regard, it would be very valuable in my decision making process. In any case, I thank you for your help.

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Considering joining one of the IITs said...

Yes, I have a very favorable view.

computing facilities - Excellent,
Experimental facilities - okay
library access (access to eJournals etc.), - Good to Excellent
academic freedom, - Excellent
funding opportunities -Excellent
beurocratic - administration by faculty is good, administration by staff is not very good.
political influence - none so far

You should, of course, visit IIT before joining.

Most of the people who join IIT/IISc have studied in IIT/IISc.

I certainly feel that 2,000 to 3,000 difference between PB-3 or PB-4 should not influence any decision.

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor,
Your comments about PB3 or PB4 are wrong. The difference even in Mehta committee recomendations is 7,000 in basic and added to that 22% DA will make it 10,000. So please dont mislead youngsters. Computing facilities and online access to journals is available in NITs also. Moreover, CSIR is making all efforts to makesure that all universities get access to most journals. One a person is in PB4, do you thing he will be bothered with all these trivial facilities and do research!!. Reality is different from all the preachings.

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor,

There are soo many faculty in IITs at Asst.Prof level who had come from NITs after serving several years as Asst.Profs. They are not promoted in these IITs just becuase of internal politics. Now all of them stand loosing a lot. How many faculty in IISc or IITs work for the sake of academic enjoyment and not salary? Mehta committe recomendation will make IISc and IITs BIG Zero in terms of research.

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Anon,

I was told an asst prof offered at 12,000 will start at 30,000 while one who is offered at 13260 will start at 34,000. PB-4 is 37,000. Thus, the difference is 3,000. This is based on the information that was given to me.

Sorry, if you think I am misleading people. I only tell my opinions.
"Reality is different from all the preachings." I am not trying to preach. That particular person asked for my opinion (he should asked by email but he may not want to reveal himself) and I said my opinion. I am NOT here to preach to anyone.

I can express my opinion and say that I really love IISc and its academic freedom. I can do it at least in my blog, can't I?

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor,
"I can express my opinion and say that I really love IISc and its academic freedom"
I agree with your opinion about IISc. What about IITs?. What is the teaching load?. In IITs several faculty do not have choice of courses they want to teach, Infact, they are "asked" to teach a group of 500 students(at times) and 8-10 hours(6Lec +3Tut) per week. Then where is the time for doing the RESEARCH?.

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor & all,
Once we agree for PB3 for Asst.prof.'s why do you think govt. will give some thing far beyond babus scales. One if you agree PB3 for Asst.profs, then there is no question of 30,000 minimum. As per the principles of govt. salary will be fixed as per 6CPC fixation and not a paise more. So we should REJECT Mehta's recomendations for protecting TEMPLES OF EDUCATION (IITs/IIMs/IISc).

Considering joining one of the IITs said...

Thanks for all your inputs.

Well, I am not too concerned about PB3 or PB4; if I looked at this only in monetary terms, this move would not make sense (even under proposed pay scales). I do see it as a measure of how welcomed I am at that institution. And I also wanted to have some kind of idea about my pay there. I must admit that I do not fully understand the way these pay scales are written. In any case, what is AGP? What is higher education research allowance?

And yes, I did attend IITK before coming to US. I do not rate academic facilities in those days as excellent. I remember as students, we use to "fight" for computer terminals, library books and what not. Our department did not even have a projector for power point presentations (yes, they do now!). In those days, I did not care about supercomputing facilities. No web access to Journals or library catalogs. There was departmental politics and I presume there still is; and bureaucracy (a lot of paperwork). Well, that was a long time ago though. I see that things have improved tremendously in last few years. But I do not know the extent of this improvement. That's why I wanted to have some independent views on the current state of affairs.

Regarding excessive teaching loads at IITs, yes, that would be a concern. Even if I decide to join IIT, I expect to have some research funding from Caltech to continue the research work I have been involved in here. If I am asked to conduct 6 lectures and 3 tutorials per week, that would make it very difficult to do any kind of meaningful research and that would not be acceptable at all. Thanks for bringing this up. I now know that I need to talk to the department about this issue.

Thanks again for all your inputs.

Explorer said...

This is a series of interesting and informative posts -- thanks for this.

I got my Ph.D. in the US in 2002 and have been working since then in the industry (in the US). I am now considering applying for a faculty position in the IITs/IISc. Given the latest revision of the pay scales, could you tell what salary I could expect if I were to join as an Assistant Professor?

BTW, has this proposal of revised pay scales been implemented?

Many thanks.

Anonymous said...

In NIT many of the professors and asst.professors are not happy with the recommendation of mehta committee as starting pay in NIT is recommended higher and also without Ph.D person have a chance to move to PB-IV ,but it is also a fact here in NIT many of the professor with Ph.D have acquired a degree of Ph.D and the post of professor without any dedication to that topic or subject ,they have just done an administrative duties which can be done by a simple cleark also and also while doing that administrative duties they have taken lot of undue benifits from the institutes.Right now they are contributing nothing towrds subjects and research but they are busy with making plan and policies to prevent the junior faculities from getting higher pay and also restricting a lecturer selection gradeor lecturer without Ph.D from getting PB-IV

Anonymous said...

What really surprising is: Asst.profs of NITs who do not even have PhD have been given PB4, but Asst.Profs at IITs who do PhD before joining the institute and has atleast 3 years of research experience in world class Labs are denied PB4. This is a cospiracy by Mehta to kill IITs once and for all. May be he wants all Asst.prof in IITs to move to IISERs or new IITs at higher level. If this happens, then existing IITs will perish in no time. May be this is what govt and senior profs want!!

Anonymous said...

so it is recommended if you are not having a degree of Ph.D then join NIT or other engineering college join iit only after having that degree,one more thing join IIT when you are intrested in doing research not in teaching if you want to do teaching then give first preference to the ohter engineering college then NIT and at the last to IIT.if you neither wnat to do genuine teaching nor true research then join NIT.

Anonymous said...

IITs also have teaching load which is equal to that of NITs. So where is the difference. In NITs, you need not do any extra effort(research) to get promotions (Pb4) but in IITs, one has to prove by guiding a PHD. These are double standards employed by Senior Professors who any way doesn't do any research work. Another RULE that is going to come is Asst.profs will not be allowed to guide Phd alone. They can be atmost co-supervisors!!!

Anonymous said...

The new pay commission recommendations are, by design, intended to reward

mediocrity while squeezing out the top performers. This is an inevitable

outcome of a one-size-fits all policy in a massive higher education system

infested with an overwhelming majority of poor to mediocre faculty. Look at

the recommendations: For the most part, all kinds of teachers in

post-secondary education - ordinary colleges, univs, research institutes,

IITs/IIsc, NITs are treated almost alike regardless of

ability/qualification/dedication/work/output/aptitude.. The system puts a

premium, just as in any other govt. job, on the NUMBER OF YEARS/SENIORITY more

than anything else - the kind of thinking, a relic of our socialist past. Some

glaring examples:

(1) Asst. profs at NITs (who need not have a Phd) are placed in PB-IV, while

asst. profs. at IITs who, so far, invariably used to have a PhD + at least 2

yeats of postdoc. at some top univ/lab, are placed in PB-3. For the newly

joined asst. profs at IITs, the ONLY criterion to go to PB-IV is: 3 YEARS of

'EXPERIENCE' as the asst. prof level OR a total of 5 YEARS 'EXPERIENCE'

post-phD. Note that the only thing that matters is 'EXPERIENCE' - regardless

of acad. excellence, credentials etc.

(2)In any college, lecturer without a PhD will be given PB-IV after serving

for 3 years in the old scale. Those who join with PhD are infact, treated

inferior.

(3) The same criteria - NO. OF YEARS applies for promotions at all levels

(from asst to assoc prof etc). Merely NUMBER OF YEARS - If you don't satisfy,

go stand in a corner and suck thumb.

(4) This NONSENSE even applies to the newly created category - the title of

DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR - Here again, the major factor is 10 YEARS IN THE

PROFESSOR CADRE, performance matrix being an auxiliary criterion (as if this

is a great generosity form the committee). You need to have at least 10 years

of 'EXPERIENCE' as a professor to be eligible for consideration.

(5) Downside of the above - Prof. Giridhar will have to wait another 10 years

for this promition no matter what his achievements are, in the meantime. By

any yardstick, he should be in this category of DISTINGUISHED PROF. by NOW. Or

for that matter, even if some one young from IISc gets a Nobel Prize (highly

unlikely), this coveted title (by the UGC) will be out of bounds!

IN short, with the new pay scales, there is no room for excellence, especilly

when it comes to promotions. I think it is, by design, because it intends to

cater to the most NUMBER OF PEOPLE - in the indian high ed. system - Even if

it is against the interests of a miniscule minority in the old IITs/IISc.

ANOTHER GEM FROM THE REPORT: Asst. Profs. are not allowed to guide phDs alone

- can do only with a senior faculy as co-supervisor. If this is indeed

applicable to IITs/IISc - this wil kill whatever little excellence remains in

the IIT system - as NO ONE WITH SELF RESPECT, will join under this condition.

Again this is directly related to the applling state of affairs in most of our

univs - where many asst. profs/readers themselves don't have phDs - then, How

do they 'GUIDE' phD students??

For those who plan to take the plunge of joining IITs - make sure you

understand the promotion policy. If it is tied to the general univ/college

system in India - it may take several years before you will be a FULL

PROFESSOR. Whereas, in any decent univ in North america/europe, transition

from asst. to FULL PROF. will take only about 8-9 years.

Of course, these things don't matter to some very few of us - like me - who

plan to come back for the sake of ageing parents. For the rest, at least

review the implications thoroughly before you take the flight.

All Classic examples - NURTURING MEDIOCRITY AT THE COST OF EXCELLENCE -

probably one of its kind, that we all can be proud of!

regards
Krishnakumar

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Dr. Krishnakumar:

If you want to rant, please do so. Even if fact is mixed with fiction, that is okay. But please do not involve me personally.

First of all, "ordinary colleges, univs, research institutes, IITs/IIsc, NITs are treated almost alike" FALSE. The associate professor in IIT gets the same scale as a full professor in NITs. The full professor of IIT gets a much higher scale.

Second, "NO. OF YEARS applies for promotions at all levels" FALSE. Promotions can vary widely. In IITs, normally, assistant professors get promoted to full professors in 8-10 years. In IISc, it is 12 years (6 to Associate, 6 to full). However, depending on performance, it can be widely different. I got promoted in 9 years from assistant to full in IISc, which is rare. There are faculty who have been recently promoted from assistant to associate in three years. I was promoted to associate to full in 3.5 years. There are also assistant professors who are assistant professors after 12 years of service. There have been people who retired from service as assistant professors.

Third, "Asst. Profs. are not allowed to guide phDs alone" False. There is no basis for saying this.

Fourth, "Prof. Giridhar will have to wait another 10 years for this promition no matter what his achievements are, in the meantime.By
any yardstick, he should be in this category of DISTINGUISHED PROF. by NOW." False. Actually, I would have kept my mouth shut if you had not dragged me personally into all this. The criteria for applying for distinguished professor in IISc is one should be a fellow of two academies. I have not been nominated to be a fellow, let alone be one. Therefore, I do not even satisfy the eligibility criteria in IISc.

I could go on and point out other wrong things in your comments but I do not want to.

Thanks and best regards,

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

In NIT number of cleark are limited so many of Ph.D holders are doing their duties and are promoted to the post of professor and now they have forgotten all about their subjects and their basic duties .they all are escaping from taking lectures and laboratory,they are all trying to pressurised their juniors .as junior with ME or M.TECH have to take them as their Ph.D guide ,so in real sense in NIT level of teaching and quality of research is moving in the downward direction.Also dirctors of all NITs are from IIT and they are keeping faith in the professors of NIT and they give them authority to run the college but all Directors are not aware of the dirty games of the professors. all these professors used to make all the directors fool by lot of show business.one more thing whenever professors and higher authority has to take benifits then they are considering NIT at par with IIT but when the matters of giving real output come to them at par with IIT then they are finding a way to escape from it.After becoming professors they remain present only for one or two hours at their workplace and the rest of the time they are doing lot of meetings for the development of the NIT without dedicating themselves for the subjects.everything except technical contribution they do where a simple cleark is sufficient to do all this. really god may save NITs from the coming calmity also god may fogive all Directors of NITs for their innocence and ignorance towards real teaching and research in NITs

Anonymous said...

The story is same in most of the IITs. Everybody's AIM is to become professor and somehow get some admin job. If they can't, they try to create problems in other departments and become HODs of other departments against the Satutes of IIT system. This behaviour in professors is becoming ramphant in Comp.sci & electrical depts. They contribute 0 towards research but create hurdles for other dept people.

Niket said...

Giri,

You opened a can of worms here :-)

I find it a sorry state of affairs that faculty at our institute consider themselves better than the rest (eg., IIT > NIT) by default.

Here we are, trying to tell our students that JEE is just an entrance exam; on the other hand, we use our position as IIT faculty as some exalted thing. Its just shocking and depressing to hear such things... rather than focusing on research (and, of course, teaching).

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar:

I am sorry for involving your name specifically in the rant - it was just to highlight a case in point. I can understand your
concerns, and I sincerely apologize to you in this regard.

I can further understand that you wish to be extremely modest about your achievements, and I fully respect that.

Yet, it is my firm belief that *someone* with a prolific research output and hundreds of citations to credit, should be in the Distinguished prof. category in India, whichever be the institute. Again, Please note that it is just my personal belief - unrelated to any specific institute policies(IISc included), neither do I wish to go to the right/wrongs of any inst. policies.

Just one clarification: By the word Distinguished prof, I was actually referring to the Institute Professor category in the Mehta committee report (page. 19). I think IITs/IISc falls in this category. As far as I understand, the wording is straightforward: "such a professor must have AT LEAST 10 years
experience as professor ..." To me, the 10 yr. experience seemed sacrosanct, unless there is any fine print somewhere.

Finally, I'm rather surprised that you have not even been nominated to one of these academies. I will just leave it at that.

Thanks very much,
Best Regards
Krishnakumar

Explorer said...

I had posted this before but I fear that my post got crowded out by a recent flurry of posts. I thought I would post again to get your thoughts:

>>>>
This is a series of interesting and informative posts -- thanks for this.

I got my Ph.D. in the US in 2002 and have been working since then in the industry (in the US). I am now considering applying for a faculty position in the IITs/IISc. Given the latest revision of the pay scales, could you tell what salary I could expect if I were to join as an Assistant Professor (would I be in the PB-3 or in the PB-4 scale)?

BTW, has this proposal of revised pay scales been implemented?

Many thanks.
<<<<

Giri@iisc said...

Niket- Of course, IISc faculty are better than IIT faculty; Among IITs, some IIT faculty are better than newly started IIT faculty. They are better than NIT faculty. They are better than....We have a whole gradation and caste system in place.

Krishnakumar- You seem to have a higher opinion about my research than many of my colleagues. Thanks, anyway.

Anon - The scale on which you will be placed depends on the selection committee's recommendation. the revised pay has not even been approved by the government. Only after approval, it can be implemented.

Anonymous said...

Nikit: Bitter truth is always difficult to swallow. The Ship of IITs is sinking. If you see the recent promotions acroos IITs, it is not the quality but it is "other qualifications" decided the promotions. This used to be the case in universities earlier. If this trend continues for another 10 years, you will see that BITs pilani will be placed much higher than IITs. The IIT system is rotting very fast.

Anonymous said...

In the pre revised scale, for becomming Asst. Professor, the candidate has to complete Ph.D within a period of seven years after selection. What will be the designation and scale for those who were appointed directly as assitant Professor in all India based selection(without Ph.D)? Hope they will be placed directly as Associate Professor with a grade pay of Rs.9,000/-. If not, there will not be any difference between the directly selected candidate (through all India based competition) and CAS based selected candidate. Please comment.

Anonymous said...

For moving from one grade pay(7000 to 8000 or 8000 to 9000) to another grade pay, a candidate who completes Ph.D during the tenure may be given chance to get a higher grade pay less than a year compare to non Ph.D degree holders.

Anonymous said...

i think all the Ph.D holder should at leastfor once visit industry and compare their work with daily industrial problems,they will find industrial people daily deals with a problem which are equivallent to Ph.D,so demand of Ph.D holders to get many many extra benifits without contributing any thing to a system is not fair.By doing Ph.D what contribution they are making for the society how many real life problem of engineering they are taking and giving the solution is important.
In our college many Ph.D holders are not able to teach to the students or are not able to solve the problem from the industries even the problem from the industries or society are from their area of research.on the other side many non Ph.D holders are teaching well and doing good industrial consultancy.so what is the use of many paper tiger who are neither useful to the students nor to the society.So i feel there is a demand of time to reconsider a promotion policy in a technical education system and it should be based on continous perfomance of a faculty ,where perfomance means soulution of real life problems and good teaching related to their subjects and not related to acquiring only degree and publishing n nubers of hypothetical papers .

Dr. D.R. Kaushal said...

I am not able to understand the psyche of people sending messages as "Anonymous". Either they are afraid of their institute administration to get recognised or they are so depressed from themselves that they feel ashamed in disclosing their identity.

I am being rude and saying all this, but i realy feel irritated when i see some messages written by "nobody".

Dr. Paul said...

I (Ph.D in 2006) joined the institute (ISM Dhanbad) on 16.03.2007. Please tell me what will be my new basic on 16.03.2007 under the following condition:

(i) if ISM gets IIT Pay
(ii)if ISM gets NIT pay

What will be the new starting pay (including AGP) for the post of Asst. Professor (12000-420-18300/-, pre-revised) if the institute is given NIT pay scale?

Anonymous said...

In india it is difficult to link performance with salary in government sector as recruitment is not absolutely on the performance basis ,it is on the basis of cast,region,religion,influence,bribe etc.Now according to news also same is applicable for promotion also.So on this page to demand for higer on the basis of performance or higher qualification is immaterial.

R.N. said...

Dear Dr. Kaushal,

Its really nice to see you again. Please let me know if you have any idea about the notification of IIT/IIM/NIT pay scales. What was the final outcome of the interministrial committee? It seems that MHRD is not doing any thing for all of us.

thanks

R.N. Yadav

Anonymous said...

ARJUN SINGH HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN TICKET BY CONGRESS AND NONE OF HIS FAMILY MEMBER HAS BEEN GIVEN TICKET IN THIS ELECTION SO HE IS COUNTING HIS DAYS AND WE ARE COUNTING OUR DAYS OF DELAY IN IMPLEMENTATION OF SCALES

Anonymous said...

People in IITs are doing nothing but wasting hard earned money of poor and others. In selections they outrightly reject people who have got the degrees from NITs and other places. They select generally who are near and dear of IIT Directors and Senior professors and who ggot at least one degree from IIT, even if he do not have any good publications, or some times do not have minimum eligibility criterion. IITs have not produced any classical research as they claim. Several incompetent persons are serving as teachers in IITs. So why should be they given higher pay scales than UGC.

Dr. Paul said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

I (Ph.D in 2006) joined the institute (ISM Dhanbad) on 16.03.2007. Please tell me what will be my new basic on 16.03.2007 under the following condition:

(i) if ISM gets IIT Pay
(ii)if ISM gets NIT pay

What will be the new starting pay (including AGP) for the post of Asst. Professor (12000-420-18300/-, pre-revised) if the institute is given NIT pay scale?

Giri@iisc said...

Dear Dr. Paul:

I have no idea about pay fixations.

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

There has been no news about the status of the Mehta report since it has been submitted to the ministry. Do you have any information about the next sequence of events before it is finalized and when it will come to effect ?

Regards
SD

IIT_Offer_In_Hand said...

Professor,

It looks like the new payscales have not yet been implemented. I recently got an offer from IIT-B and my basic pay is 12000. I completed my PhD in 2008 from a top 5 european Univ. Including all the "allowances", my pay is close to 36000, but I wonder about taxes and the like (not to mention, I probably will stay in the quarters, so HRA and transport are probably out). Do you know when this will be implemented? the joining date that was given in Sep. and I'll walk, if new payscales will not be implemented by then.

I'm not greedy or anything like that, it's just that I am used to a certain lifestyle (even as a student), and having to make some sacrifices is fine (because you get to live near home), but 36000 is something I got offered fresh out of my BE from college. Pensions etc. are great, but they all come out of your salary, and many private companies also make matching contributions - so that alone is not sufficient economic incentive.
So could you kindly add additional information on take-home pay? Sorry for asking for so much information, but you are the only source of such open information.

Anonymous said...

"joining date that was given in Sep. and I'll walk, if new payscales will not be implemented by then."

Take a walk; it is good for both your physical and mental health.

Explorer said...

IIT_Offer_In_Hand:

I have heard that after taxes and witholdings, the typical take home pay is about Rs. 30,000 for an Assistant Professor. I am not a professor either at IIT or at IISc. Experts, please chime in...

Giri@iisc said...

Rs. 30000 as the take home pay for as assistant professor in the current scale is correct. However, whenever the new scales will be implemented, it will be implemented effective 1.1.2006; So, irrespective of whether the new scales will be implemented before you join or not, you will get the new scales. The new scales will not be less than UGC, may not be more either.

Also, read

http://kaisare.org/blog/2009/04/06/iit-faculty-salaries/

rama said...

Dr. Giri, and other knowledgeable ones,

My Background: I have worked/studied the last 12 yrs in US. Right now Post doc in Germany. 2 MS degrees+PhD (in Aug 2008)+Post Doc (Dec-present). 5 yr Work exp in US (prior to PhD, though).

Got an Assistant Prof offer. Details: 20K basic+8K HRA+2K Conveyance allowance+Medical allowance + Leave travel allowance +Research allowance +Mediclaim+PF.

I don't have much idea about faculty pay in India but researching a bit of late, when I ran into this blog. Is my offer reasonable? Current scale 12-18K for Ass Prof. I also read elsewhere that UGC scale is 15-37K. Which one to go by? In any case, I can expect about 4-5 increments based on my work ex. - reasonable? what % of basic is the increment - roughly? Does all this mean my salary is 20+8+2=30K, and other allowances are more a time-to-time thing??

Thanks for your time - really appreciate your effort.

Anonymous said...

Sridhar-NITian.

NITs are institutes of nationalimportane and refer the NIT act 2007. This means that these set of institues are the best in the world and INI are having benchmark above the market standards, which are need not be compared with institutes benchmarking market standards.However, individual departments under various ministry in particular MHRD needs to come out with INI benchmark and it should be made available in public. These are institutes are directlt reporting to president of india. Today, there are some like Rajiv gandhi institute of petro chemical declared as INI, which is stupid and idiotical. They need to have entire procedure to do it. NITs are gone through mashelkar committee report and IITs are sarkar report. NITs are late and IIts are lucky to be early

Then IIsc is just deemed uiniveersity and yet to be declared as INI and of course doing some quality work too...

What a Shame:- Dr. Mehta and in general how is it NIts are always compared among the NITs and IITs are crept as if they are benchmark for quality in the world. It is pathetic and illusion. IIsc being deemed university is compared with INI's Now Mr Giridhar is saying that Professor post in IITs/IIsc is different from Professor post in NITs. I think it is biggest joke in the world. NITs ,AIEEE is attracting 10 lakhs people in the country and it is super-dupper exam without much of noise as IIT JEE is one of the worst possible exams based on true data. This type of institutes are given fantastic deal of difference to satisfy some brilliant professors of some subsect in Mr.Mehta 's committee to sacrifice NIT for giving life to Sychopants in the institutes.

But NITs are not going to take it like that. I observed that they are going to boycott some specifics time, which will unfortunately will affect student committee as it should be although it is least desirable. If NITs are on strike, it will be big shame for Parthiba patil,Pres of india.

First, How do you compare NITs with deemed univ like IIsc. How is the IITs professors(name sake) went of strike that INI like us should not have SC/ST reservation in faculty. If INI comes to them for fighting against constitution, NIT professors are absolutely smart to deal with some sychopants and crazyy fellows of the committee.

Students of NITs:- As NITian, we are going to have large body soon to have PAN India presence. Look Mr professor, NASA Nano tech head is NIT grad and IGCAR fast breeder reactor inveentor is NIT grad and list is countless. Bazzigar play writer is NITian, SHrike graphics is NIT lady.. So , the institutes is also what it produce. 10% of NIT population is simple great. They are in all type of institutes right from caltech to your IIsc.

IIT graduates are nothing before them. Therefore, I think that It is right time that using RTI,I will brig Mr.Mehta and IISc to lime light for practicing unwamted practice and the committee is Hoax, which trying to bring some difference so that they get some teaching manpower from NITs. if they want to fight it out, let them come openly fight out...

It is true that I am going to hammer it through RTI for golden institutes like NITs getting superb treatment and compared with deemed univ like yours.

BTW, You guys are getting 20-25 crores mulla from government for research for not performing in the name of block grant, grant for research, special grantfrom Chidabaram etc.. CN rao is there to get more grants as whole. These guy is peculiar and he represents IIT case as INI as he has forgotten other INI under MHRD. He has learn to live like Mashelkar.

Mr. Mehta is also chairman of NITK.

Regards,
R.Sridhar.

Anonymous said...

Dear NITian

First, go through CV of Prof. Giridhar available on this blog before commenting about IISc. You can also see such CVs of IIT professors on their websites. First know the facts and then send your comments. Focus yourself on improving NITs. Never try to compare them with IITs and IISc.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr.IISc,
First, let me put the facts like this.

First don't be proud of yourself. I don't require to know about IISc profile where I rejected their Ph.d admission. Mnay in your IIsc who are professors are graduates from NITs.

I am not here to improve NIT's as if IIsc or IITs are above improvement. Secondly, NIT's are not benchmarked with your set of institutions. If you go through some of the professors remarks in your site, most of the awards rae given on pleasing personality than anything else.

"Never try to comapre with IIts /IISc" are you saying that you are benckmark for NIt,s . I don't think so Mr IISc.

First, you see yourself with otherrs and improve than suggesting me to improve NIT's.

CV's of NIT's professor which I know so I don't have to go through CV'so IIT professors to be proud of anything.

There are many fellow from NIT's as you do. Please don't leave in fantasy. I know the facts and let us not wash dirty linen here.Right from IIT JEE versus AIEEE and IITs appointment....

You arre nowhere near NIt's..

Anonymous said...

earlier u were posting without your affiliation by name "Sridhar".. now u have dropped your name too..

kyon, kisi ne "danda" kar diya kya?

Anonymous said...

Hey Sridhar Saab, Professor Giridhar has 200 publications. Show one NIT professor in chemical engineering who has equal number of publications even though he can be older. That is the standard of NIT which is NOT good.

Anonymous said...

Sridhar saab.. ab chup rahenge.. kisi ne aisa danda kiya hai ki unake gale tak pahuch gaya hai.. aur wo apna naam tak bhul gaye hain.. aur sridhar saab ki bolati band kar di hai.

Anonymous said...

Anon,

This is most ridiculuos. I am a professor in NIT. It is correct that no one has 200 publications in NIT, but there is no one with more than 200 publications in chemical engineering in all IIT - Bombay, Chennai, Roorkee, Guwahati, Delhi, Kharapur etc. So, what is your great point?


A.Raman

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

Sub: Removal of Post Ph.D. experience and keeping as Ph.D. with X years of experience.


- It was very difficult to get Ph.D admission few years back.

As it was very difficult to get Ph.D holders, even AICTE had reverted back the eligibility conditions for Assistant Professor few years back. The person promoted as AP has to complete Ph.D. within 7 years from the date of appointment.

Using this eligibility condition, many were promoted as Assistant Professor. Few have completed and many are still doing their Ph.D.

If Post Ph.D. experience is considered from Assitant Professor to Associte Professor/Professor, then many staff members with experience(completed Ph.D. after selection as AP) will become juniors to the newly selected faculty with Ph.D. on the same day.

To help senior faculty with experience, please remove Post Ph.D. experience and make as Ph.D. with X years of experience like earlier AICTE condition. This is a request to Prof. Mehta committee and Ministry also.

Please support and comment.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

While searching for information on faculty positions in India, I cam across this blog, which is very informative and unique.

I intend to come to India and I am in search of a job where I can continue my research and teach.

I completed my Ph.D. in 2007 from a U.S. university and since then I have been working a post-doc in the same university. I don't have any teaching experience at this moment.

Will it be possible for me to get a position in some good institute in India as an assistant professor with out any prior teaching experience.

Your suggestions regarding this will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
SRN

Giri@iisc said...

Dear SRN,

You certainly do not need teaching experience to apply for an asst prof position in India. Most of the IITs and NIT have standing advertisments meaning you can apply any time.

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

Thank you for your suggestion.

I will start applying for the assistant professor positions soon as I would like to come back home by the end of this year.

SRN

Raghu said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

I came across this blog when searching to see if new pay scale has been implemented for university teachers. I thought my following comments may be relevant for this forum. I have a PhD and over 6 years of post-doctoral experience (University and industry combined). My PhD (in a Science discipline from US) and experience are from abroad (although I do not believe to have any better quality than anyone who is entirely educated in India).

I had Asst. Prof. offers from one IIT and one NIT recently (I think it is appropriate for me to keep the institute names anonymous for now). Due to location and a few personal matters, I let the IIT offer go and accepted the NIT offer (where I hope start soon). Both offered me 12000-420-18300 + all the usual extras. It looks like (from this forum comments and other www resources) NITs may get lower salary scale for the same position by the time I join, and here is where my comments may be relevant.

Students coming to IITs may be of higher calibre than NITs, but teaching material and work load may be similar (although I'm yet to learn about it). As for research I see no reason for any change in my future performance whether I'm in IIT or NIT. If I continue same research strategy that I followed so far (abroad), I don't see any reason for my proposals to win (or lose) solely based on my affiliation (again, this is something that I'll learn in future). I trust that such decisions will be based on merit. And my research output should be the same wherever I work. If more non-IIT/non-IISc institutes get faculty of quality similar to present IIT/IISc, it will only boost higher education system of India as it will put more pressure on IIT/IISc to perform at a higher level to keep their reputation. I for one believe that reputations cannot be kept by being stagnant and by keeping other institutes lower by discouraging (or denying facilities) in any way. Government should encourage all institutes to perform the best of their abilities. They should get adequate funds and continuously improving working conditions, and be encouraged to collaborate among institutes. India should be looking to develop within itself rather than looking to east or west. That will make our country proud.

In summary, this and other similar forums should encourage future young generations who wish to work in institutes of higher educations in India to join any institute or university of their choice based on their judgement and preferences (I'm sure there are others in similar situation as mine), and advice Government to provide whatever best they deserve. I am not qualified to comment whether IIT/IISc pay should be higher than NIT/UGC etc., but I'm very happy to be coming home soon and start my new career. I and my family are very happy of my decision irrespective of possible pay differences between the offers mentioned above, and I promise to give my best within the professional constraints of my future job.

Thanks for posting my thoughts.

Best regards,
Raghu

Anonymous said...

Dear Raghu


Ravi here again. I am posting my same views posted earlier in some other forum.


I am neither in NIT, nor in IIT. I am from IGNOU. But had lot of opportunities to interact with the people and administartion of these institutes. In due course of time, u will start feeling big difference at all levels in IIT and NIT. NITs are like islands having dictatorship of bunch of people including director. If u look at profile of director of an NIT, u will find that the only thing he has in credit is his strong political background. However, IIT recruites its director purely on the academic basis.



Then u will have to deal with those bunch of jokers in the form of lecturers and senior lecturers. Most of these guys are b.tech. and m.tech. and behave to professors like either very close relatives or servants. Believe me, these guys are going to give u lot of sleepless nights and insecurity.



Then those potballied professors, 90% of them are suffering from some chronic disease like heart attack, blood pressure, etc. They will give u tough times particularly during departmental meetings and public places, if u dont behave them like those bunch of jokers [L & L(SS)].



However, in IITs number of potballied guys is almost nil. Once, u r alotted a subject to teach, u r the boss. No compulsion of attending meetings. Further, u dont have headache of dealing with those bunch of jokers, as everybody around is a Dr.


Forget everything.. just do a survey.. how many faculty members of that NIT have Ph.Ds. from USA.. i already know result of survey.. its nobody.. then what to say about postdoctoral experience from USA... however, that IIT which offered u faculty position may (definitely) be having a good number of both breeds.



Boss, this homesickness have spoilt several careers, i cant see another brain going to drain. It is a classic example of emotional blackmail (atyachaar).



Even govt. of india tried unsuccessfully to transform NITs into IITs. Then howcome few Raghus will be able to do this uphill task?


Best regards,
Ravi

Anonymous said...

There is a huge difference between IITs and NITs.

1. Research atmosphere is completely different. The quality of students who enter NIT for Ph.D is very low. Only science students rejected by IIT and IISERs join NIT.

2. Even to buy simple chemicals for lab etc. is very difficult in NIT compared to IIT. The purchase procedures and other things are so difficult that you will become frustrated, especially if you want to do experimental research.

3. Go to places like NIT Trichy or other places and talk to young faculty in private and they will tell you that NIT is like Regional engineering college only. Just the name has been changed.

Anonymous said...

Dear Raghu

I totally agree with earlier 2 posts. I can judge difference between IITs and NITs better than anybodyelse. I was in a NIT for 10 years and now in an IIT for last 5 years.

I tell you few of my horrible experiences of those 10 years:

1. I joined this NIT just after submitting my Ph.D. synopsis in an IIT. I applied for extension of few months for joining so that I can finish my thesis writting, but the Director straight forwardly refused my request. I contacted my guide and converted my Ph.D. from full-time to part-time and joined on the same day.

2. It was nightmare for me to teach building drawing and design after having hydraulics in both my m.tech. and ph.d. I was given a table and chair kept in one corner of a room, other three corners of that room were already occupied by my fellow lecturers.

3. I was awarded ph.d. after 2 years in that NIT and after taht I started appearing in interviews for asstt. prof. post in IITs. But they were not willing to take me in due to tag of NIT lecturer and poor publication record. I could not get time to write papers from my ph.d. work as i was busy in teaching those alien subjects. I was not able to publish papers even in conferences then what to say about journal publications.

4. Then came the worst moment of my life when i was not even issued interview letter for the post of asstt. prof. in my own institute as they fixed the qualification for this post as m.tech. with 5 years of teaching experience. I was having m.tech. and 3 years of teaching experience with ph.d. that time. Anyhow, I could get issued interview letter on the day of interview after having lot of arguments with the Director.

5. Two senior guys younger to me having m.tech. and 5 years teaching experience were promoted. These guys openly started making fun of me and my ph.d. degree. I started feeling emotionally insecure and get associated with a senior professor there.

6. This professor encouraged me to publish from my ph.d. work only with the condition that i put his name as one of the author of these papers. i did the same and in this process i could publish a good number of papers but made my ph.d. supervisors biggest enemies of mine... (to be continued)

Thinking Of Returning said...

Prof Madras, in a new post you state that an assistant Prof. will get 34k, while the Mehta committee recommended 38k as per this post. So did the govt reject the committee's recommendation?

Anonymous said...

7. To make the story short, look at the fact that i was still a lecturer (SS) after 10 years of service and 8 years of post-ph.d. experience. The senior professor with whom i got associated with became very strong as i was handling all his academic and research requirements. He was having full-time to do politics at institute level.

8. Once I tried to get dissociated with this guy and published 1 paper in international conference with me as a single author. But this guy made HOD not to faorward my application for registartion fee and permission for attending that conference... (to be continued)

Anonymous said...

9. I had to pay entirely from my pocket and took casual leave for attending that international conference held at Bombay. My paper presentation was in the afternoon session of first day. Whwn i was about to present my paper, i got my wife's call from home that she just received one notice addressing me from my institute stating that "why the action should not be taken against you for following reasons:".... (to be continued)

Anonymous said...

10. Then came the moment of ultimate injustice. My institute (NIT) refused me NOC for applying Asstt. Prof. post in IIT. It happened after 10 years of my service and i was having Senior Lecturer designation with a basic of approx. 12,000. Look at the large heartedness of IIT, which permitted me to appear in interview without NOC. I approached MHRD, but they refused to interfere as NIT is an autonomous institute. I got selected in that IIT at the same scale of Rs.12,000, which i was getting in NIT. I had to resign from NIT and lost 10 years of my service as well as old pension scheme. Believe me, I find 5 years of my present job worth of all that loss. As here I have all freedom to do research, consultancy and above all get the best students to work with.

Dear Raghu, moral my story is that NIT is nothing but an Island having dictators in the form of Director and Deans. Never join NIT to be jailed for your entire life. Research is just impossible there.

Anonymous said...

Dear all,
Now UGC scales are out with fitment tables. I guess IIT scales are on the way, may be by this week-end. Let us hope all Asst.prof will be placed in PB4.

Anonymous said...

Any news about IIT pay scales. Look at the IITRajstan advt on IIT Kapur site. They give a picture of what is expected. Only Pb3 for Asst. Prof

Anonymous said...

There was recent meeting with Kapil Sibal about the Pay structure for IIT and NITs. Does anyone have any idea about the details.

Anonymous said...

As per MHRD officials, the revised pay structures for the faculty of IITs, NITs and IIMs shall be implemented soon (within a fornight or so).

Anonymous said...

The inter ministerial committee that has to approve the pay scales has yet to meet. However, the scales will be introduced by Aug 1.

Anonymous said...

Revised pay for IIT, IIM faculty may go to Cabinet this week

Press Trust of India / New Delhi June 24, 2009, 15:24 IST

Teachers in IITs and IIMs may expect fat pay packages, better than their counterparts in universities and colleges, as the government is likely to take the issue of their revised salary to the Cabinet this week.

The Pay Review committee, headed by Prof Goverdhan Mehta, set up for faculty members of central technical institutes like IITs and IIMs had submitted its report to the HRD Ministry in February this year.

The government then set up another committee to study the recommendations and make final suggestions on salaries and perks for the teachers of 53 Central Technical Educational Institutions, including IITs and IIMs.

The committee had suggested a better package for these teachers as against the faculty members of universities and colleges.

"A cabinet note has been prepared and the matter may be moved to the cabinet this week," a top ministry official told PTI here.

The Goverdhan Mehta committee will also submit another report on salary package for faculty of AICTE-affiliated institutes.

The committee, which was supposed to submit the report by May end, has been given extension till June 30.

Abdul Hamid said...

The cabinet meeting is slated for tomorrow, 3rd July, 2009. Let us see what decision is taken for IIT, IIM and NIT paysclaes.
Hope for the best.

Anonymous said...

news :cabinet has accepted the suggestions by goverdhan mehta for iit,nit and iim

Anonymous said...

The news above is not ture.Today is the last meeting of committee of secretaries to decide pay proposals. Then it will go to cabinet next week.

Anonymous said...

Any recent news about the yesterday's meeting of committee of secretaries?

Anonymous said...

Did the meeting of the secretaries hold? What is the outcome of the meeting?

Anonymous said...

JAT MARA TAB JANIYE JAB TERAHI HO JAYE

Anonymous said...

what the difference between reader-F
(as applicable in TIFR, PRL, HRI, NISER..etc) and associate prof in places like IIT, IISC ? Are they same
as far as salary goes ? I see NISER
posted reader-F salary as ~67k/month
for reader-F, is the associate prof
at IISC same as reader-F in niser ?
Also just curiosity, i see the basic
pay scale is 37,000-67,000 for reader-f in niser where as initial
basic pay is 46,000, does this mean
they give few increments (initially) for reader-f ? Shouldn't the initial basic pay
have been 37,000 instead of 46,000 ?

Anonymous said...

I think it may be
37000 + Grade Pay 9000

Anonymous said...

Committe after committee. Another committee to examine the recommendations of inter-ministerial committee has been formed and asked to submit its report within a week's time.

sanjay said...

who is this anonymous? spreading fake rumors. Please do not accept any such comment without name and details.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Sanjay,
Then what is the fact? If you are aware of where the paypanel is heldup, please let us know.

Anonymous said...

It is under the cover in Cabinet.
PM is too busy with bigger issues than teacher's pay. So wait!

PREM said...

An open letter to Kapil Sibal , Union Minister MHRD

SIR,
The new pay scales for Technical teachers including that of IITs/IIMs have so far not been 'declared' whileas for all the officials in MHRD these were declared on AUGUST 15, 2008. It is rather strange that even after 11 months of that there is no sign of pay scales for technical teachers.

The decision on scales for technical teachers after the blueprint available for Central Govt. employees from VI Pay Commission, was not a matter of more than 15 days over and above the VI PC. ( Anybody can see and compare the 6 PC and Mehta committee Reports and make it out !!). The work on the revised pay for tech teachers is going on (?) with such a pace that the snails and loaths are also happy to have an edge over MHRD officials. A strange 'secracy' is maintained over 'what is going on' (whether anything is going on is also doubtful) in the Ministry. Meetings after meetings and committees after commmittees - that may be the progress. In the meanwhile a false 'excuset' of general elections was taken to keep the things in cold bag. (State Govts one after the other and PSUs etc. all were announcing revised pay for their employees but for the technical teachers probably EC would have objected!! - was that a perception of MHRD?)



Sir the technical teachers are surprised to see the 'top secracy' being maintained by MHRD about their revised pay - may be a security threat to the country!!, lest Pakistan or China may come to know what India is going to pay to its technical teachers!.

Sir, MHRD deserves congratulations and needs commended for not able to do a job in 11 months time which could have been done (if there was a will to do) within 15 days ONLY.

These officials should be awarded with 'Padma' awards of various orders to those at various levels!!

Sir, I am sure they will come up with 100 excuses and 101 reasons to justify the unprecedented and hitherto unheard delay but fact remains that they were and are only 'sitting' over this issue for reasons best known to them.

We the technical teachers have come to understand that the officials and the Ministry of HRD neither can be questioned by anyone nor are answerable to anyone in this country.

GOD BLESS MHRD and its OFFICIALS.

- yours faithfully,

Dr. P P Bahuguna

President, ISMU Teachers Association,

ISM Dhanbad

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know what is the govt rule for reimbursing relocation fee
at the technical institutes like IISC, TIFR, IIT etc ? I mean how much it was and how much it is now
in 6th pay commission (if at all it has also been revised)? I am moving to India to one of the institute but they never mention how much they will be paying for relocation fee
in offer letter and i feel uncomfortable asking them at this stage. But its very important for me as i am moving from US to india and its very expensive. WOuld appreciate if anybody know anything about it....

Giri@iisc said...

Relocation for new faculty who join IISc:

This is currently Rs. 75000 for candidates travelling from within India and Rs. 1,25000 for candidates from abroad

Anonymous said...

Prof. Giri,

Do you foresee this going up after the Mehta Committee report is implemented?

Anonymous said...

I have pretty good feeling, its not going up again. The govt is going to sit back because it just implemented
6th pay commission. They would ask everybody to accept it and they will
review it again sometime soon. When they say soon means 5-10 years later. I hope i am wrong....but that how it works in india.

Pappu Kasai said...

I have a question: How much is the take home salary (after tax and other things) of assistant prof. in IIT these days? How much could it be after implementaiton of 6th pay commission recommendations?

Anonymous said...

I remember, one of my friend who joined IISc told me that his take home salary was around 26k/month.
I would think IIT would be similar.
After 6th pay commission i see some places the asst prof salary is around/or little more than 40k/month take home.
In both cases, the institute provides house.
Somebody can correct me...

Pappu Kasai said...

I guess I need someone from IIT or IISc to reply my previous query regarding the take home salary now and after implementation of 6th pay commission recommendations. Actually, someone told me that take home salary for assistant prof in IIT is around 34,000 INR/pm. I am not sure if this is the right figure or not. It will be nice if someone can clarify this!
Thanks in advance. I guess right now Prof. Giri probably can reply me regarding this query!

Anonymous said...

Any updates of IIT/IIM/IISc pay revision?

Anonymous said...

AICTE Pay revision : A new committee constituted Yesterday central government constituted a new 3 member committee under the chairmanship of Prof. S. Malkhani to revise the AICTE pay scales of technical teachers. Other members are Prof. Bimal Kumar Mandal and Prof. G.K.Arya. This committee will also accept the Prof. Mehta's report on IIT/IIM pay revision. The committee had given 3 month time to submit report.

Anonymous said...

Does that mean, that it would be another 3 months before the committe comes to a conclusion? If true, then implementation is still months or may be years away

Anonymous said...

elections are over who cares for you now.Wait for one year.We deserve this treatment as we are divided and always playing politics .All NITs are useless only house of politics

Anonymous said...

Govt processing panel's suggestion on IIT, IIM faculty's pay
The Economic Times, 28 Jul 2009, 1822 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: A committee set up to recommend revised pay scale for faculty of IITs and IIMs has suggested fat salary packages for them while the commendations are being processed by the government, the Rajya Sabha was told on Tuesday.
The Govardhan Mehta Pay Review Committee has suggested that the scale of pay of assistant professors in these institutions will be in the Pay Band of Rs 15,600 to Rs 39,100 with Academic Grade Pay of Rs 8,000, Minister of State for HRD D Purandeswari said in a written reply.
The committee has said the position of lecturer could be offered on contractual basis and may be renewed in the pay band Rs 15,600 to Rs 39,100 with AGP of Rs 7,000.
It has further said three advance increments on non-compoundable basis may be allowed for those with M Tech and six advance increments on non-compoundable basis may be allowed to lecturers with PhD.
The committee has suggested that pay scale of associate professors should be in pay band of Rs 37,400 to Rs 67,000 with AGP of Rs 10,000 while the minimum basic pay to be fixed at Rs 43,000. The scale of pay for professors will be remain in the pay band of Rs 37,400 to Rs 67,000 with AGP of Rs 11,000 and the minimum basic to be be fixed at Rs 48,000. A professor will be eligible for enhanced AGP of Rs 12,000 with five years experience in the scale.

Anonymous said...

Pay hike of IIT/IIM professors not attractive enough
July 29, 2009
________________________________________
New Delhi: The pay package of the faculty members of the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) and Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) which was revised recently may create disappointment for many.

The Govardhan Mehta Pay Review Committee did not recommend huge shift in the pay package for the IIM/IIT faculty members.

Few of the recommendations of the report were divulged recently in the Rajya Sabha by Minister of State for Human Resource Development (HRD), D Purandeswari in a written reply.

Nevertheless, if compared with the pay package of the university teachers', the results show that the IIM/IIT teachers may get a raw deal.

The committee while maintaining the equivalent pay band concept of the Sixth Pay Commission has made small changes in the grade pay level.

According to A. K. Pani, President, IIT Bombay Faculty Forum, "The raised pay is not enough to attract talented professors to the IITs. We were looking out for an incentive over and above the salary. We had also requested for a senior professor scale, so that there is no stagnation."

An assistant professor in an IIT/IIM will draw a grade pay of Rs.8, 000/-, whereas, a faculty in the university will start at Rs.6, 000/- and reach Rs.8, 000/- in nine years

Anonymous said...

now it is realized that government is really having some hidden agenda behind releasing 6 pay benifits,one of it may to make our education system open for unqualified people from top to the bottom by keeping policy of votebank in their mind.congress people want to introduce it very shrewedly.But this time if they do it then it will really damage our education system ,which is a backbone of our entire nation progress & entire nation has to pay a lot for it as those few unqualified people will frustrate the qualified and elevated people at higher level in the education system.

Anonymous said...

Have the payscales of IIM and IITs revised already? What about IISc, when is it likely to be revised here....... Any idea?

Bhawani said...

The Union Cabinet today approved the revision of pay scales of Faculty, Design & Scientific Staff and other academic staff of the Centrally funded institutions. The Cabinet also approved giving financial assistance to States for implementing the above revised scales.
Source : Press Information Bureau.

manoj said...

New Delhi, Aug 6 (PTI) In a big relief to thousands of teachers and staff of centrally funded technical institutions, including IITs and IIMs, the government today revised their pay with retrospective effect from January one, 2006.

The revision of pay scales of faculty, design and scientific staff and other academic staff of the over 50 centrally funded institutions were approved by the Union Cabinet, chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

The government also gave the go ahead for giving financial assistance to states for implementing the revised scales, an official statement said.

The revision of salary will enable the institutes to recruit and retain quality faculty and will provide them an encouraging environment and working condition to enhance their performance and capacity, the statement said.

The government had earlier set up a committee under the chairmanship of Prof Govardhan Mehta to recommend revised pay scale for faculty of centrally funded technical institutions.

Anonymous said...

You are here: Home » National » Govt okays IIT, IIM teachers’ pay hike


Extended to other Centrally funded institutions
Govt okays IIT, IIM teachers’ pay hike
NEW DELHI, DH News Service:

In a move that would bring smiles to thousands of academic staff in the IITs, IIMs and other Centrally funded technical institutions, the Union government on Thursday approved revision of their pay-scales with retrospective effect from January 1, 2006.



The Union Cabinet in a meeting chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh approved the revision of pay-scales of the faculty, design and scientific staff and other academic staff of the Centrally funded institutions.

Aid to states

The United Progressive Alliance Government also approved giving financial assistance to States for implementing the revised pay-scales.

The government’s decision was expected after the revision of pay-scales of the Central government employees on the recommendation of the Sixth Pay Commission.

An official statement said that the revision of pay-scale would enable the Centrally funded technical institutions “to recruit and retain talented and well qualified faculty and to provide them an environment and working conditions that encourage them to enhance their performance and capacity”.

A panel led by Prof Govardhan Mehta had recommended that the scale of pay of assistant professors should be in the pay-band of Rs 15,600 to Rs 39,100 with the Academic Grade Pay (AGP) of Rs 8,000.

The Mehta Committee had also suggested that the lecturers could be appointed on contract and might be renewed with the same pay-band like the assistant professors with AGP of Rs 7,000.

The panel had recommended a pay-band of Rs 37,400 to 67,000 with the AGP of Rs 11,000 for the professors, whose minimum basic would be fixed at Rs 48,000. Professors would be eligible for enhanced AGV of Rs 12,000 with five years experience in the scale.
The associate professors’ pay-band had been recommended as Rs 37,400 to Rs 67,000 with AGP Rs 10,000, while the minimum basic pay to be fixed at Rs 43,000.

Anonymous said...

When are they going to implement? Any news in any of the IITs or IIsc? What about arrears?

Anonymous said...

Why its not implemented in IIT or IISc where as the new pay scale was already advertised (for new faculty
applicants) in last May: see

http://niser.ac.in/notices/2009/new-faculty.php

How come NISER already advertised this new payscale even tough it wasn't approved by govt.

Did i miss something.... ?

PREM said...

Govt has written an obituary for a premier and apex institute in mining and allied sciences i.e. the renouned Indian School of Mines Dhanbad by downgrading it from its Ist rung position to 2nd rung technical institute level. The institute has been doing extremely well specially during last 5 years when its student strength increased from 1100 to 2400 and the placement was 100%. The institute was rated as 8th among the top 10 technical institutes of the country. This institute was granted IIT scales and the entrace through IITJEE in1998 by NDA govt. during the time of Dr MM Joshi as Union Minister for HRD. Later his arch rival Shri Arjun Singh also did not think of downgrading the institute, but credit now goes to Shri Kapil Sibal for demolishing this fine institute for reasons only known to him and his MHRD. There does not seem to be a single valid reason for this push-from-cliff action of this world class institute by the great MHRD whose actual job should be to help improve the premier and other institutes rather than to downgrade them. This downgrading of the institute rather reflects on the performance of the MHRD rather than that of the institute itself which has kept up higher standards in the technical education and has expanded very fast.
This institute which commands a good respect among the wellknown institutes imparting training in Mining and allied branches world over has been stripped off its position by none other than the Ministry itself which is expected to help it to further improve.
The nation has aright to ask the Ministry the reasons for downgrading the institute and to tell what ministry has done in last 5 years to help it to improve further and also what was expected of it that was not done. Further, Ministry also needs to explain by giving comparison and academic audit with the two institutes which were in the lower rung than ISM dhanbad i.e. BHU-IT and BEC Sibpur which have now been upgraded to first rung
that why ISM was downgraded in comparison to them. Further how ISM is compared to the fresh new IITs whose track record is not available so far?
It seems MHRD is acting with bias against ISM and also agaist the state of Jharkhand where there is no IIT and the single IIT level institute ISM Dhanbad has also been pulled down.
It is not out of context to mention that smaller states like Uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh each have been given IIT and the UP has now two IITs.

The nation owes a clarification from MHRD for its arbitrary action.

Anonymous said...

Just few minutes ago ( now 21/08/09 : 19.15) IIT Delhi Faculty forum met and resolved the following ( official resolution will come tomorrow)
Points:
1.Tuesday mass casual leave.
2. Wearing black badges from Monday onwards.
3.Stop mentoring IIT Punjab
4.Attracting media attention and support
Future:
1.Collective agitations with other IITs ( strike, street protest etc.,)
2.Stop teaching
3.Resignation to official posts ( HODs etc.,)
4.Can think of stop helping in JEE kind of duties….
5. …. So on…

Anonymous said...

Could anyone comment on the policy of industrial consulting at IITs/IISC?

How much freedom does a professor have in working with industry?

What portion (if any) of the consulting fees does the institute keep and what do the professor typically get?

Do institutions encourage such consulting or is the system/politics leaning towards curtailing such ventures?

SB

Giri@iisc said...

SB, this is already answered in the previous post.

http://giridharmadras.blogspot.com/2009/03/pay-scales-in-iisc.html

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Hi
How many good students join academia if they get selected in UPSC Organised services? The scale of pay of IIT/NITs should be further reduced.Though I got appointment from IIT as AP I rejected. See the CV of IIT/NIT profs. It is just cut and paste technology of paper publication and so called research.
So the pay scales are too high for these, thus shd be reduced.

Anonymous said...

Then selection through "University Services Commission" can solve this problem.

Anonymous said...

Lot of good students join academics.
Similar to what you see in USA. You will be surprised to see the indian students are better/ar same par to any other students around the world. The reason the paper quality is not that good in india is because of the proffessors themselves. Once they get job, they relax, don't get serious in research (completely opposite to USA). Most of the profs in many institutes in india don't even theach (not a single USA institute does that...except couple of DOE labs). I don't think the salary of profs should be reduced but their work should be evaluated every year. There should be couple of people (from DOE) who should visit the institutes/universities and evaluate their work, then the next year funding should depend of your work. In universitties, all the teachers should be evaluated by students for teaching level and also should be avaluated by DOE for research.

Vinay said...

My father is a government employee. Whenever he rants about his government job perks and freedom I tend to show him my job offer letter (from a software company) and we both laugh at it. I guess we both understand the difference between a 12 hr 5-day life style of a software engineer and a 6 day government job lifestyle, and the pains associated with both :-)

My question is didn't you people knew that before? Else why are you comparing US and Indian life styles?

And secondly don't IITs have a good mechanisms for industrial consultancy?

How about thinking about the likes of :-

http://www.iiit.net/people/faculty
http://www.iiit.net/content/faculty-openings

At least you won't have to face the whims and fancies of government bureaucracy.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

Thanks for answering my query regarding consultancy.

I am wondering whether the sixth pay commission has recommended any changes to the 60-40 split of consultancy fees?

Is the consultancy money earned during the 3 month vacation period also part of the 60-40 split?

I have heard rumors that the senior faculty do not like the new guys getting into consultancy and political barriers are raised to stop them. While it does sound bizzare to me, perhaps you could share your experience in this regard.

Also, could you please point me to more details on the other benefits -- specifically children education allowance and medical benefits at IISc/IIT?

Sorry for bombarding you with such questions. I am a PhD from US with 6 yrs of industrial research experience and am trying to garner enough information to take a prudent decision about joining academia.

Regards,

SB

Giri@iisc said...

The summer of 3 months is vacation. You can earn whatever you want.

Maybe senior professors think if you spend all the time in consulting and three months abroad every year, how can you ever do experimental research in India?
I have no idea what you mean by political barriers.

Schooling in Kendriya Vidyalaya is nearly free and medical at the local health center is free.

Thanks

Giridhar

Anonymous said...

Not all IIT faculties are extraordinary. On the other hand there are many world class research workers in UGC universities. Higher pay scales for IIT will cause heartburn to them. Of course, overall iits have higher standards. At the same time they get very good students and infrastructure also. IISC faculties negligible teaching load.
It is also not correct that if somebody has done Ph.D. while working, it is of low level. I have seen many fresh M.Sc. (with NET qualification) or B.E. with excellent results have joined BARC, DRDO or ISRO or university system. They have done world class research there and acquired Ph.D. On the other hand left out backbenchers, who did not qualify any all India exam. or get job, slugged in the research. Somehow they obtained Ph.D., may be under some big fellow in some university or even IIT and had some post-DOC experience abroad (which is not very hard to get). A few international publications came automatically. Many of them are IIT/IISER faculties.
Also IITs, IISERS, IISC have high prejudice for foreign Ph.Ds or post-docs. Even NISER website openly tells their preference for post-DOC abroad (May be Bangladesh, Nepal?) which itself shows IITs and IISc in poor light.
What is disappointing in the MHRD notification is the absence for any incentive for good, meaningful research and teaching. These institutions should be given freedom so that they can offer suitable and attractive recruitment and promotional scheme for their faculties. Also there should be suitable incentives for doing productive research e,g. monetary benefits/faster promotions/research grant etc. can be given based on no. of papers in good journals (as first author), no. of Ph.D.s produced, industrial , environmental or social problems solved, foreign research collaboration or bringing of external funds etc. (for both MHRD & UGC institutions).
SD

Anonymous said...

Just curious,

how long it takes for a reader (with
4 tier system: asst prof. reader. assoc prof. and prof) to get promoted to associate prof ?

Also what is the usual tax cut for somebody with basic pay
around 40K/month.

Anonymous said...

What will be the designation and payband of a selection grade lecturer with three years of service in 2009 in an NIT system?

Curious said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

What is the teaching load at IISc? Is it different from the IITs? Does it depend on the rank?

How does the teaching load compare with the IIMs?

sundar said...

Dear Professor Gridhar,

I have done ME at NIT Trichy in 1999. I have 10 years of Industry experience in software (working as Technical Architect in a MNC Company) and 1 year of experience in teaching (PSG College of Technology).

Will it be possible for me to join IIT with a decent pay scale and grade? Is Ph.D mandatory? Is the selection process to IIT/IISC happening thorought the year? I have read in many places that IITs have faculty shortage. May be the selection process involve more manual work than picking up the real talent?

Can you please let me know or direct me to the correct person to get the answer?

Thanks,
Sundar

Giri@iisc said...

ph.d is mandatory.

Anonymous said...

ugc has put a notice on it's website stating directly recruited assistant professor after 1-1-2006 will be placed in pb-iv with the designation associate professor,then what about IIT's assistant professor

Aditya said...

A general philosophical comment on the salary hike. I do not fully understand the proposed salary structure. Let us assume a high estimate of 75k per month pretax. A maharishi type brilliant researcher will work as long as he has enough food to survive. But most of us ordinary mortals without such exceptional motivation. A common argument that I hear is this - why would one choose academics/research if one were not motivated enough. This is an argument that I hear only in academics. In any other profession, complaints and cribbing about poor pay are not met with the 'motivation' argument.
Even if we decide to make personal sacrifices, one needs to consider the rest of the family's needs. Today's society judges us purely on the basis of our wealth. The respect for knowledge and scholars is a thing of the past. Ultimately wealth equals influence. Perhaps when ones kids join a school and compete with children whose parents are well off, one would feel the pinch of the salary.

The general role models in society are the affluent. Why would anybody be attracted to a career in research? Most faculty in IISc could have had a very successful career in any other field, and one can notice a sense of disappointment in many at their financial status.

The other angle to this story, is research competence in IITs/IISc. Despite our bombast about the quality of these institutes, the research contributions of the faculty have been second rate. Many average universities in the US have faculty with a better track record. Bad salary drives away most top talent, poor research grants, funds and politics drive away the few who try to stick it out and those who endure and remain are usually too demotivated to do critical research. Then the general perceptions sets in that these institutes are not competitive and hence do not deserve high funding. Chicken and egg situation.

The only way this can be solved is by following the Chinese model. Hire a few top Indian researchers from around the world and pay them very well. Make an offer they cannot refuse say 50 lakh per annum. Give them freedom to recruit other bright researchers from around the world and allow the salaries to be lucrative. Talent will flow into India from everywhere. If we have pure monetary considerations, one can recover many times the money spent on these lucrative salaries and research funding, because of the technical innovations that would be produced in 10 years. This was the US model too in the early 20th century, to attract top talent from Europe. Of course the war played a big role too. But even through out the 1960s and 70s talent moved from Europe to the US simply because of better salaries and funds. Those who keep claiming that researchers should be willing to make sacrifices are kidding themselves.

manu said...

respected prof. giridhar,

I am a student of B.Tech. Final year in Bio-Chemical Engineering from H.B.T.I., Kanpur. I want to pursue M.Tech./M.S. in Biochemical Engg. or Biotechnology from IIT/IISc. I want to know about the career after this.... is there sufficient industries recruiting postgraduates ? and what are the chances of getting a Ph.D. offer from a very good (ICL, MacGill, etc.) university.

abhishek

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Anonymous said...

Dear Professor,
Please accept my wishes for maintaining such a wonderful blog. I completed my Ph.D from IITMadras in 2007. I joined a consulting company in Dubai, just after submitting my thesis (April, 2007). Now, I am willing to come back to India as a faculty in any of the NIT or IIT. Couple of days back, I got a interview call letter from one of the NITs, but I am only offered PB3 (Rs.15,600 - 39,100 with AGP of Rs.6000). I guess this is equivalent to join as Assistant Professor On Contract basis in any of the IITs.
I have almost completed 3years of industrial experience (by april 2010, surely before I join, if selected).
Please clarify why I am not offered Rs.15,600 - 39,100 with AGP of Rs.8000 ?.
If I selected for AGP of 6000, should I have complete 3years in NIT to reach the AGP of 8000?. By that time, I’ll have a combined (industry & teaching) experience of 6 years.

Dhanya said...

Dear Sir,

Excellent blog with loads of information for budding scientists and engineers. GREAT!!! Kindly clarify whether it is possible to reimburse travel expenses (from abroad) for attending the interview in IIT...

-Dhanya

Anonymous said...

Hi,

Thanks for the excellent post. I hope this thread is still active.

In one of your other posts you mention that some profs make upto 20lacs through industry consultancy. Could you please tell us what the average income through consultancy is? What fraction of the faculty are able to generate additional income through consultancy?

Thanks.
Anand