Sunday, October 25, 2009

New pay scales accepted

The IIT faculty association has accepted the new pay scales. IISc had already accepted the new scales in October and will receive the revised pay on Nov 1. The revised pay and the arrears of the pay can be calculated and will be most likely paid to IISc faculty in November.

36 comments:

s.b. said...

This calculator is not considering AGP of 9000 for assistant professors after 3 years in service.

jeevan13singh said...

Prof. Madras, Prof. Sriram and others:

I will be joining an IIT soon after many years in US academia. I have been told that civil servants in India are required to file an annual form disclosing their global assets. Is this rule applicable to IIT/IISc faculty as well? Somehow, I am very uncomfortable filing paperwork specifying my global assets in a country where little or no protection exists for personal information.

Can you please let me know if IIT/IISc faculty has to disclose personal assets?

Sincerely
JS

Giri@iisc said...

Dear JS,

No.

Giridhar

Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

Dear s.b.

There is a seperate calcualtor on the same website for asstt. prof. salary.

iitmsriram said...

Giridhar,

You are not quite correct; IIX faculty are government employees and group A civil service conduct rules are applicable. Rule 18 requires submission of annual property returns. This was not being followed and the only time I remember filing one was when I found the standard return form in the forms bundle given to me at the time of first joining IITM. However, last year, MHRD has issued a letter (MHRD letter No.C-13011/70/2006-Vigilance dated21.07.2008) asking IIX to collect the annual property returns and IITM has since asked us to file these. These returns are supposed to be confidential and in the custody of the director and do not come under the purview of right to information, for example. JS, if you are worried about these things, you will have loooots of things to worry about from the service rules. As you rightly observe, there is little or no protection for this type of personal information in India.

Giri@iisc said...

Dear IITMSriram,

Thanks. I am aware that CCS conduct rules apply to us.

http://www.persmin.nic.in/EmployeesCorner/Acts_Rules/CCSRules_1964/ccs_conduct_rules_1964_index.htm

I was unaware that IIT had asked faculty to file these. IISc has not asked faculty to file this.

Anonymous said...

I have some doubt about how the fitment and pay revision will account for situtations like the following.
A person X (or group) joins IIX in 2004 without any increment and another person Y joins the same IIX in 2005 with say 2 increments. So as on 31.12.2005 Y is drawing more basic pay than X. With the new pay revision, X moves to PB4 in 2007 which means for the same position (Asst. Professor) in the same pre-revised scale, person X who was earlier drawing less basic will draw a higher basic than Y unless Y is also moved to PB-4 simultaneously. Any guidance from the 6th PC implementaton rules?

VK

Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

All the assistant professors joined after 1.1.2006 will be fixed in PB3 corresponding to their prerevised basic as follows:

5th 6th
12000 38000
12420 38000
12840 38000
13260 38000
13680 38000
14100 38000
14520 38000
14940 38000
15360 38000
15780 38000
16200 38140
16620 38920
17040 39700
17460 40480
17880 41260
18300 42040

After 3 years in service, as none of them crosses 46400, all the assistant professors will be fixed in (37400+9000=) 46400. If someone completes 3 years in service before 1.1.2006, he will start getting pb4 (46400) from 1.1.2006, otherwise will start getting it as and when completes 3years.

Anonymous said...

I have a question which is not related to this post; sorry about that. Consider the following situation : Suppose I am in an institute as assistant professor for two years and now I am moving to a different institute, say, IISc (same post, salary protected). When will I be considered for promotion in the new institute? Will the experience of two years and publications during that period be counted,
while considering promotion? What is the policy of IISc in this regard? Kindly respond.
---V

Anonymous said...

One question on the payscales:

The PB3->PB4 elevation will be after three years of service. So, for people who joined in 2007, will they get PB4 in 2010, or in 3 years from now, which will be in 2012?

Bharat

skjain said...

There are two more points to think:
1. Somebody who joined just few months back, before the announcement of MHRD notification, are offered Asst. Professor with less than or even zero experience. They may be placed at 30K+8K AGP, with one year probation. Now if one joins now, he will be placed under contract for 3 years with 21K+6K AGP. so, they will feel de motivated for 03 years comparing to their PEERS.
2.Some body with 9 years of pre/post PhD teaching/research/industry experience, with even 9 increments will be placed at 30K basic with those who joined before August 2009 MHRD notification. He/She will feel humiliated for 03 years and others will enjoy only by the virtue of joining before the notifications.
so,what IIT/IISC are going to do for these discrepencies....

Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

Dear Anonys

You can use any of calculators to know about the eleveation from pb3 to 4 in different scenerios.

3 years in service means, 3 years in prerevised scale of 12000-18300. Earlier service is counted only if one switches over institutes through proper channel. Joining a institute after resigning the previous one means you will be considered new entrant in your present institute.

Dear SKJain

In every pay commission, such situations are bound to arise. It is impossible to design a pay structure looking at individual cases.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr. Kaushal,
The pay commission gazette has some explicit rules about 'jumping over' being avoided.. i.e. an employee getting a higher pay in the same post/same scale than another employee before revision cannot be given lower pay than the second employee after revision. They can utmost be made equal..i.e. the first employee's pay has to be revised along with the second employee at the same time (the PB3 to PB4 jump). I have read it but not too clear about how it can be interpreted. Maybe Prof. Sriram can give more clarification. I know of a few such cases in my institute.

VK

Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

Dear VK

If there exists such a rule in 6thCPC document, the only way out is to give pb4 to all the incumbent assistant professors on 1.1.2006 with bunching benifits. However, I have not come across any such clause in 6thCPC. Prof. Sriram, your comments, please.

SKJain said...

Respected D R Kaushal sir
I do agree with you that in every pay scale, these things happen. But bunching of 9 increments is too much. also somebody with less than 03 years exper. are given 30K+8K, just by virtue of joining before 16th Aug., why not IIX governing body give notional increments to faculties having 8 or 9 pre/post PhD experience.6th PC says minimum of 30K up to 15760 basic, but if IIX selection committee has recommended increments or pay protection at the time of joining,it must be honoured by the IIX/IISc directors.if they relax 03 yeras of exper., why not they relax 03 years as asst. professor to move to PB-4 if sombody has 8 or 9 increments???

Anonymous said...

Was there any clarification from MHRD or IIX administration on the conference grant? Has it been increased with respect to previous years?

iitmsriram said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

Dear Prof. Sriram,

Someone may reach 13260 without 3 years in service due to icrements given at the time of joining. If s/he is given PB4, it will be violation of MHRD notification?

Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

... and in MHRD notification, by 3 years in service means 3 years in the AGP of 8000.

MRavi said...

Dr. Kaushal
"Someone may reach 13260 without 3 years in service due to icrements given at the time of joining. If s/he is given PB4, it will be violation of MHRD notification?
"
If somebody with 12000 basic is mapped to 30k+8K basic, just because one is appointed as AP before the 18thAug notification, why not a basic of 13260 be given PB4. otherwise what is the significance of 03 incremanets given by selection panel?? also, traetment of faculty members joined before 18thAUG, will not be same as sombody joing after that..individual IITs or IISc has to do justice for them not the MHRD..

iitmsriram said...

Well, Kaushal, where does it say 3 years in 8000 AGP? As far as I can see, that is your interpretation, does not matter whether it is logical or not. No notification says that anywhere. The notification only says 3 years of service (and the "in the" phrase following that has now been deleted), so there is ambiguity. Is it three years at 8000 AGP? Is it 3 years in the cadre? Is it 3 years in the post? Is it 3 years of ancient service? It could be anything and MHRD has to issue a clarification as to what it actually means.

MRavi said...

iitmsriram
your Interpretation seems logical. anyway, all these are relevant to faculties in IIts prior to 18thAug notification. So somebody with three increments by virtue of service/performance in interview/pay protection decided by selection committee must be honored by respective IIT/IISc.any logic for 12K mapping to 30K ???

iitmsriram said...

mravi,

12k is the starting pay pre-revised. As per Mehta committee recommendation and the MHRD notification, 30k + 8k is the starting pay for the same qualifications, post revision; the MHRD notification also gives the mapping as 12k going to 30k + 8k. I am with you on the selection committee line of argument and that is my reason for suggesting 13260 to PB4 mapping - it is likely to stand up in court even. After all, an empowered selection committee with technical experts evaluated the applicant and decided to give x credit as extra increments (service credit?) - so the candidate can be treated as having x years more relevant experience than the minimum required. So, when x and the actual years of experience after that add up to 3, the 3 years service requirement can be taken as met. We need to see if MHRD can be convinced; I am trying through the faculty federation also.

MRavi said...

iitsriram
More interestingly, in most of the IITs/IISC faculties having less than 3 yeras even < 1 year exoerience have been offered AP at a basic of 12K. now, this 3 year requirement is relaxed for them and compared to post pay notification AP on contact, they will be at 30K. now see the poor condition of 13260 fellow: he is also at 30K and more pathatic is 20140 felloa at APon contarct even one has 2 yeras exper.. IITs not the MHRD should do the justice to fellows with 13260 basic to more poor fellows at higher basic upto 15760.. God may help them at last....
waiting for your comment please

Dr. D.R.Kaushal said...

(ii) Assistant Professors

(1) To be appointed in PB-3 with AGP of Rs. 8000/-p.m. For direct recruits, minimum pay in the Pay Band to be fixed at Rs.30000/-.

(2) For appointment as Assistant Professor, one should have a Ph.D with first class or equivalent in the appropriate branch with a very good academic record throughout and at least three years' industriallresearch/teaching experience, excluding however, the experience gained while pursuing Ph.D.

(3) Assistant Professors in IITs, IISc Bangalore, IIMs, NlTlE Mumbai and IISERs, on completion of 3 years of service shall move to Pay Band of Rs 37400-67000 (PB 4) with an Academic Grade Pay (AGP) of Rs 9000 and will, however, continue to be designated as Assistant Professor.

Now, look at the following clause which is very much a part of final notification:

8 (iv) (a) Assistant Professors in the pre-revised scale of Rs.12,000 - Rs.18,300 with basic pay ranging from Rs. 12,000/- to Rs. 15,780/- p.m. will be placed at the minimum of Rs.30,000/- p.m. For those incumbents with pre-revised basic pay of more than Rs.15780/-, their revised pay will be determined by multiplying the existing pay as on 1.1.2006 by a factor of 1.86 and rounding
off the multiple figure to the next multiple of 10 as given in Rule 7 (l)(a)(i) of the CCS (RP) Rules, 2008.

If we see the notification in totality, following scenerio emerges:

(ii)(1) & 8(iv)(a) concludes:
All the assistant professors joined after 1.1.2006 will be fixed in PB3 corresponding to their prerevised basic as follows:

5th 6th
12000 38000
12420 38000
12840 38000
13260 38000
13680 38000
14100 38000
14520 38000
14940 38000
15360 38000
15780 38000
16200 38140
16620 38920
17040 39700
17460 40480
17880 41260
18300 42040

(ii) (3) concludes:
After 3 years in service, as none of them crosses 46400, all the assistant professors will be fixed in (37400+9000=) 46400. If someone completes 3 years in service before 1.1.2006, he will start getting pb4 (46400) from 1.1.2006, otherwise will start getting it as and when completes 3years.

Other interpretations will be possible only if clause 8(iv)(a) is deleted from notification.

MRavi said...

Dr. Kaushal
Other interpretations will be possible only if clause 8(iv)(a) is deleted from notification.

this clause has taken away the senority,pay and due credit given by selection committee and has made AP with up to 8 years of increment to the point where a AP with 12k.. so what justice you see in this..MHRD simply put 15760x1.8 which is 28K+ to 30K and make these fellows, selection committee, experience and motivation buried inside the ground. May God bless them and provide good sense to IIT/IISc directorrs to use their discretion power..what is the logic behind giving 12K with < 3 exper to 30K and not 13240 to even a single increment???????

iitmsriram said...

I didn't know we had a final notification where all outstanding issues have been sorted out; for instance, what would be the revised pay of assistant professors with more than 3 years of service as on 1.1.2006? Will someone with 5 years service in the 12000 scale get the same as someone else with 15 years in the same scale? What about with 16 years service (the answer to this is no, because of the stagnation clause in fixation). Clause 3 was inserted after the first notification and the corresponding additions to 8(iv) are missing even as of today.

ps: my bad, for assistant professors min PB4 is 37400+9000 = 46400 as Kaushal writes, not +9500 as I have incorrectly stated.

s.b. said...

Look at how the salaries are being fixed in IIT Gowahati:

All the assistant professors are fixed in PB3 on 1.1.2006 corresponding to their prerevised basic as shown in table by Kaushal.

After 3 years in service, as on 1.1.2009 none of them crosses 46400, all the assistant professors are fixed in (37400+9000=) 46400.

Anonymous said...

what about for an IIT Assistant Prof joined after Jan 2006 (say joined in Jan 2008)?

Anonymous said...

there is nothing about him, as he will be treated as bonded labourer on peanuts.

Anonymous said...

with two years post phd experience and awarded two increments (12840 basic) when joined in Jan 2008.

>>what about for an IIT Assistant Prof joined after Jan 2006 (say joined in Jan 2008)?

Anonymous said...

Dear Prof. Giridhar,

I got 6 years of experience after my Ph.D (3 years postdoctoral + 3 years industrial). Now, I would like to move to academia (like IIT/IISc). Could you please let me know in which category I would be considered (Pay band 4 or Pay band 3)?

Vijay

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor-

I was wondering if there was an update about the situation of newly recruited APs, who have not joined the IIT yet.

I've an offer for a regular AP position from an IIT. I'll be joining in December 2009. I received the offer in August 2009, which was before the AP on contract position was invented. I don't have any postdoc experience.

Will I now be appointed as a regular AP (as it says in my offer letter) or as AP on contract?

In answer to this question, Prof. Sriram mentioned a few weeks ago that I'll most likely be appointed as a regular AP since I already have the offer letter. However, it was speculation at that point, and a formal decision had not been reached. I was wondering if the issue has now been resolved.

Thank you,
NP

Giri@iisc said...

Dear NP,

I am not aware. Maybe iitmsriram can clarify

Giridhar

MMJha said...

Dear Anon
you will be appointed as a regular AP not as AP on contract. it is being done in new IITs.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Prof. Giri. MMJha, that's good to know!

-- NP